[ih] internet-history Digest, Vol 105, Issue 33
Barbara Denny
b_a_denny at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 31 09:17:55 PDT 2016
I believe you are thinking of a different packet radio. There was one by the radio community that used AX.25. Packet radio was an ARPA/DARPA effort that developed its own suite of protocols that were improved over time. These protocols were usually referred to as CAP followed by a version number (e.g. CAP 6). If my memory isn't faulty, CAP stood for Channel Access Protocol. It was a MANET.
The August demo did show off the use of the Internet transport. My memory of what I have been told in the past agrees with what Craig mentioned: The development of the DARPA packet radio network (PRnet) was a motivator for TCP. I would have to check with others to see about the timing of the distinct layering as I joined the packet radio project later. BTW, I am using the phrase Internet transport deliberately. I chatted with Don Nielson recently about the Guardian article and he used that phrase for the demo.
barbara
From: "internet-history-request at postel.org" <internet-history-request at postel.org>
To: internet-history at postel.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 7:26 AM
Subject: internet-history Digest, Vol 105, Issue 33
Send internet-history mailing list submissions to
internet-history at postel.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
internet-history-request at postel.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
internet-history-owner at postel.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of internet-history digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: internet-history Digest, Vol 105, Issue 30 (Craig Partridge)
2. Re: internet-history Digest, Vol 105, Issue 30 (Dave Crocker)
3. Re: internet-history Digest, Vol 105, Issue 30
(Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond)
4. Re: internet-history Digest, Vol 105, Issue 30
(Dr Eberhard W Lisse)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 09:50:48 -0400
From: Craig Partridge <craig at aland.bbn.com>
Subject: Re: [ih] internet-history Digest, Vol 105, Issue 30
To: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com>
Cc: Craig Partridge <craig at aland.bbn.com>,
"internet-history at postel.org" <internet-history at postel.org>, Barbara
Denny <b_a_denny at yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <14316BEF-D99C-4F91-8182-6FC0B08DF31A at aland.bbn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Hi Olivier:
What the article hints at, but doesn?t quite say, is that TCP was the answer to a question, namely how to do we link packet radio networks (and some other
types of networks) to a network like ARPANET?
As I recall the story (I arrived on the scene later), Bob Kahn was in the process of funding Packet Radio Networks and he and Vint needed to solve the
interconnection problem and that motivated the TCP paper.
Thanks!
Craig
PS: Footnote ? originally TCP contained both TCP and what we now call IP. IP was made a standalone protocol after a hallway debate in (I believe) 1977.
> On Aug 31, 2016, at 3:33 AM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 31/08/2016 05:13, Barbara Denny wrote:
>> For those interested, here is another article related to the Packet Radio/ARPANET August Internet demo. BTW, the SFgate article didn't make it clear that another packet radio located at Stanford was used to reach SRI. The November 1977 demo also added a satellite, SATNET, to make it a 3 network test.
>>
>> barbara
>>
>> How the internet was invented <https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/15/how-the-internet-was-invented-1976-arpa-kahn-cerf?CMP=share_btn_link>
>
> Thanks for this link. The mentioning of packet radio raised my interest and I was not aware of the Stanford experiments. Yet I am somehow puzzled as packet radio used AX.25. Thus whilst I understand the packet transmission of data was proven, is packet radio really that closely related to TCP/IP?
> Kindest regards,
>
> Olivier
> _______
> internet-history mailing list
> internet-history at postel.org
> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.postel.org/pipermail/internet-history/attachments/20160831/d75e7f11/attachment-0001.html
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 1856 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mailman.postel.org/pipermail/internet-history/attachments/20160831/d75e7f11/smime-0001.bin
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 07:17:36 -0700
From: Dave Crocker <dhc2 at dcrocker.net>
Subject: Re: [ih] internet-history Digest, Vol 105, Issue 30
To: Craig Partridge <craig at aland.bbn.com>, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
<ocl at gih.com>
Cc: "internet-history at postel.org" <internet-history at postel.org>,
Barbara Denny <b_a_denny at yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c38b1b19-eb0c-0ce4-13a4-ea9ca129dfe0 at dcrocker.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
On 8/31/2016 6:50 AM, Craig Partridge wrote:
> As I recall the story (I arrived on the scene later), Bob Kahn was in
> the process of funding Packet Radio Networks and he and Vint needed to
> solve the
> interconnection problem and that motivated the TCP paper.
This is a variant of the broader problem statement I was used to hearing:
Even by 1972 there already were a variety of independent networks
around the world. How to interconnect them, since it was unlikely that
they would all agree to switch over to someone else's network protocols.
TCP was developed as an overlay that would run on all of them,
connecting them.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 16:22:50 +0200
From: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com>
Subject: Re: [ih] internet-history Digest, Vol 105, Issue 30
To: Craig Partridge <craig at aland.bbn.com>
Cc: "internet-history at postel.org" <internet-history at postel.org>,
Barbara Denny <b_a_denny at yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52bcdc97-12fb-8f01-64df-e99cb55024a4 at gih.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Dear Craig,
thanks, that's helpful. I've learnt something today. :-)
Now I am aware of the AMPR's work (nicely summarised on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet ). It hints at TCP/IP & a non
routeable Class A being allocated to the AMPR network, with some people
using NAT to carry traffic across -- but was that really done on a
larger scale? I recall regulatory issues at the time, where Packet Radio
was seen as a broadcast medium & you needed your radio license to
operate a TNC. Thus whilst it was legally possible to send out an email
to the Internet from a Packet Radio node, as you held a license to do
so, it was deemed illegal to receive your emails from the Internet to
your TNC - as the sender did not hold a radio license. I am speaking of
1989 so 10+ years later than Bob Kahn's work.
Is the restriction still in place now?
Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 31/08/2016 15:50, Craig Partridge wrote:
> Hi Olivier:
>
> What the article hints at, but doesn?t quite say, is that TCP was the
> answer to a question, namely how to do we link packet radio networks
> (and some other
> types of networks) to a network like ARPANET?
>
> As I recall the story (I arrived on the scene later), Bob Kahn was in
> the process of funding Packet Radio Networks and he and Vint needed to
> solve the
> interconnection problem and that motivated the TCP paper.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Craig
>
> PS: Footnote ? originally TCP contained both TCP and what we now call
> IP. IP was made a standalone protocol after a hallway debate in (I
> believe) 1977.
>
>
>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 3:33 AM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com
>> <mailto:ocl at gih.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 31/08/2016 05:13, Barbara Denny wrote:
>>> For those interested, here is another article related to the Packet
>>> Radio/ARPANET August Internet demo. BTW, the SFgate article didn't
>>> make it clear that another packet radio located at Stanford was used
>>> to reach SRI. The November 1977 demo also added a satellite,
>>> SATNET, to make it a 3 network test.
>>>
>>> barbara
>>>
>>> How the internet was invented
>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/15/how-the-internet-was-invented-1976-arpa-kahn-cerf?CMP=share_btn_link>
>>
>> Thanks for this link. The mentioning of packet radio raised my
>> interest and I was not aware of the Stanford experiments. Yet I am
>> somehow puzzled as packet radio used AX.25. Thus whilst I understand
>> the packet transmission of data was proven, is packet radio really
>> that closely related to TCP/IP?
>> Kindest regards,
>>
>> Olivier
>> _______
>> internet-history mailing list
>> internet-history at postel.org <mailto:internet-history at postel.org>
>> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
>
--
Olivier MJ Cr?pin-Leblond, PhD
http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.postel.org/pipermail/internet-history/attachments/20160831/2e7ee393/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 15:26:17 +0100
From: Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el at lisse.NA>
Subject: Re: [ih] internet-history Digest, Vol 105, Issue 30
To: craig at aland.bbn.com, ocl at gih.com
Cc: internet-history at postel.org, b_a_denny at yahoo.com, el at lisse.NA
Message-ID: <9bbb4cfc-b714-e5a7-4d94-aa1f1369e654 at lisse.NA>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Ah,
I remember fondly when they used to have a routing for North America
which made their addresses look like something.NA and that then
bounced up and down UUCP over the telephone line a few times.
greetings, el
On 2016-08-31 14:50, Craig Partridge wrote:
> Hi Olivier:
>
> What the article hints at, but doesn?t quite say, is that TCP was
> the answer to a question, namely how to do we link packet radio
> networks (and some other types of networks) to a network like
> ARPANET?
>
> As I recall the story (I arrived on the scene later), Bob Kahn was
> in the process of funding Packet Radio Networks and he and Vint
> needed to solve the interconnection problem and that motivated the
> TCP paper.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Craig
>
> PS: Footnote ? originally TCP contained both TCP and what we now call
> IP. IP was made a standalone protocol after a hallway debate in (I
> believe) 1977.
[...]
--
Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse \ / Obstetrician & Gynaecologist (Saar)
el at lisse.NA / * | Telephone: +264 81 124 6733 (cell)
PO Box 8421 \ /
Bachbrecht, Namibia ;____/
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
internet-history mailing list
internet-history at postel.org
http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
End of internet-history Digest, Vol 105, Issue 33
*************************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://elists.isoc.org/pipermail/internet-history/attachments/20160831/fb206228/attachment.htm>
More information about the Internet-history
mailing list