[ih] Comments re the packet radio discussion

Tue Apr 21 12:32:32 PDT 2026

Cardassian?
v

On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 3:00 PM Jack Haverty <jack at 3kitty.org> wrote:

> I just noticed an interesting aspect of the online PRTNs.  One I randomly
> picked (PRTN 81), which states:
>
> The model being used to examine spoofing and physical security can |
> also be used to examine some of the system protocol issues, So far the
> model has been used to examine systems with a finite number of terminals,
> multiple repeater systems and the carrier sense hidden terminal problem
> (in which some terminals cannot hear other terminals, yet all terminals
> can block transmissions to the station). The effect of different numbers
> of buffers at the terminals has also been examined, The simulation |
> models are being used to supplement ths understanding (gained from sna-
> lytical results) of packet radio systems so.that. the experimental packet :
> transmission and receiving system can incorporate features that will be
> found in an operational packet radio
>
>
> Makes sense.  Tell me more.  A subsequent paragraph explains in more
> detail:
>
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>
>
> I guess I'm still not allowed to read this PRTN....
>
> Medete ont to you too!
>
> /Jack
>
>
> On 4/21/26 11:48, Jack Haverty wrote:
>
> Wow.  I just looked at the PRTNs.  They seem to have been put online very
> recently, i.e., in July 2025, 40+ years after being written. They're also
> apparently the only documents related to "Packet Radio" available at
> archive.org, and the description on archive.org seems to indicate that
> they were obtained from somebody's archive of amateur radio materials.
>
> I recall that, circa 1980, it was very difficult to get a copy of PRTNs.
> If you weren't working on one of the contracts, the documents weren't
> available to you.   At BBN, the PR work was done in a different Division
> from the one I was in, working on their own ARPA contracts.  In contrast,
> things like RFCs were easily accessible by FTP from SRI-NIC.
>
> I remember seeing someone's copy of a PRTN or two back then, but never
> figured out how to get on the distribution list.   It seemed like details
> of topics such as routing, flow control, et al in Packet Radio would be
> relevant to similar discussions in other networking research, but it was
> difficult to get any details, except by just asking someone else who was
> working on some PR contracts, who were usually happy to do so and not
> seemingly restricted in discussing their work.
>
> I just looked at some PRTNs from the archive.org collection and didn't
> see any indication that they had ever been classified, or restricted
> distribution, or FOUO, or other such things that controlled who could see
> what.   Other than a couple of papers in conference proceedings, I never
> saw Packet Radio reports such as PRTNs until literally today.   But I
> remembered that PRTNs existed and likely had some interesting technical
> information.
>
> Lots (but not all) of other Internet project materials were not quite
> public but still easily available to the technical community, despite the
> Internet being a DoD project and even a DoD Standard.
>
> Any idea what the unusual (for the Internet at the time) Packet Radio
> secrecy was about...?
>
> /Jack
>
> On 4/21/26 02:01, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>
> thanks for this additional gloss, Len - I had not remembered the prtn
> series so it is good to have that reference in this list. Modeling and
> analysis of networks was the primary focus of the network measurement
> center. Had you not drawn steve crocker, jon postel and me into your lab,
> we might never have had the amazing careers we actually have had.
>
> v
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:58 AM Leonard Kleinrock via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
> Here are some thoughts to add to the group’s email thread regarding packet
> radio, material of which some of you are aware, but perhaps it will add
> value for others of you.
>
> In addition to the implementation of testbeds and demos, there was a
> significant level of effort on the theory and performance issues
> surrounding packet radio.  As Vint said, Bob Kahn began the packet radio
> program at ARPA and among the first documents to be produced were the
> Packet Radio Temporary Notes (PRTNs).  (Here I quote liberally from the
> key
> site that makes available these notes), namely,
> https://archive.org/details/packet-radio-temporary-notes?sort=date. These
> notes were a series of informal,  technical documents distributed by
> various technology organizations from 1972 through 1983. Their purpose was
> to share research, experimentation, and development progress related to
> packet radio.  Regarding the word “Temporary”,  unlike polished
> publications, PRTNs were often quick releases of ideas, experiments, and
> software related to packet radio. They allowed for rapid sharing of
> insights without waiting for formal publication.  The organizations that
> were involved included ARPA, Bolt Beranek and Newman, Network Analysis
> Corporation, Rockwell International, SRI International, Stanford
> University, UCLA, University of Hawaii, and Xerox PARC.
>
> These Notes contained much of the early theoretical work on packet radio
> which then found their way into the major journals and conferences on
> subject.   Along the way, the analytical modeling, analysis and
> optimization of the packet radio effort has led to a vibrant field of
> study
> and implementation and has contributed in no small way to the success of
> packet radio and beyond.
>
> Bob Kahn was a lead author on a 1978 paper, “Advances in Packet Radio
> Technology” <
> https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=1455420> which
> described the basic concepts of packet radio technology at that time, and
> described an implementation of the packet radio network (called PRnet).
>
> Not long after, in 1982, Vint published “Packet Satellite Technology
> Reference Sources” <
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc829?utm_source=chatgpt.com> as
> RFC 829 in which he described the packet satellite technology and gave an
> extensive list of references that included many of the theoretical
> performance and modeling papers that had been published.
>
> Then, in 1987, Jubin and Tornow published a paper, “The DARPA Packet Radio
> Network Protocols” <
>
> https://ia800306.us.archive.org/20/items/DARPA_Packet_Radio_Network_Protocols/DARPA%20Packet%20Radio%20Network%20Protocols.pdf>
>
> describing the state of the PRNet and focused on the protocols.
>
> It is no surprise that Kahn’s packet radio work is tightly linked to his
> collaboration with Vint which led to their design of TCP/IP. In some ways,
> packet radio was a stress test for TCP/IP under the extreme conditions of
> loss, delay and mobility due to different underlying media and networks.
> One can trace the lineage from ARPANET packet switching (wired, fixed
> nodes) to PRNET packet radio (wireless, networked, mobile nodes) to
> Internet (ARPANET + PRNET + SATNET).  The wireless side then moved to
> Survivable Adaptive Radio Networks (SURAN) and then to Mobile Ad Hoc
> Networks (MANETs) and now modern wireless ad hoc systems.
>
> Hope this brief history is of some interest.
>
> Len
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