[ih] Comments re the packet radio discussion

Tue Apr 21 12:00:14 PDT 2026

I just noticed an interesting aspect of the online PRTNs.  One I 
randomly picked (PRTN 81), which states:

The model being used to examine spoofing and physical security can |
also be used to examine some of the system protocol issues, So far the
model has been used to examine systems with a finite number of terminals,
multiple repeater systems and the carrier sense hidden terminal problem
(in which some terminals cannot hear other terminals, yet all terminals
can block transmissions to the station). The effect of different numbers
of buffers at the terminals has also been examined, The simulation |
models are being used to supplement ths understanding (gained from sna-
lytical results) of packet radio systems so.that. the experimental packet :
transmission and receiving system can incorporate features that will be
found in an operational packet radio

Makes sense.  Tell me more.  A subsequent paragraph explains in more detail:

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I guess I'm still not allowed to read this PRTN....

Medete ont to you too!

/Jack

On 4/21/26 11:48, Jack Haverty wrote:
> Wow.  I just looked at the PRTNs.  They seem to have been put online 
> very recently, i.e., in July 2025, 40+ years after being written. 
> They're also apparently the only documents related to "Packet Radio" 
> available at archive.org, and the description on archive.org seems to 
> indicate that they were obtained from somebody's archive of amateur 
> radio materials.
>
> I recall that, circa 1980, it was very difficult to get a copy of 
> PRTNs.  If you weren't working on one of the contracts, the documents 
> weren't available to you.   At BBN, the PR work was done in a 
> different Division from the one I was in, working on their own ARPA 
> contracts.  In contrast, things like RFCs were easily accessible by 
> FTP from SRI-NIC.
>
> I remember seeing someone's copy of a PRTN or two back then, but never 
> figured out how to get on the distribution list.   It seemed like 
> details of topics such as routing, flow control, et al in Packet Radio 
> would be relevant to similar discussions in other networking research, 
> but it was difficult to get any details, except by just asking someone 
> else who was working on some PR contracts, who were usually happy to 
> do so and not seemingly restricted in discussing their work.
>
> I just looked at some PRTNs from the archive.org collection and didn't 
> see any indication that they had ever been classified, or restricted 
> distribution, or FOUO, or other such things that controlled who could 
> see what.   Other than a couple of papers in conference proceedings, I 
> never saw Packet Radio reports such as PRTNs until literally today.  
>  But I remembered that PRTNs existed and likely had some interesting 
> technical information.
>
> Lots (but not all) of other Internet project materials were not quite 
> public but still easily available to the technical community, despite 
> the Internet being a DoD project and even a DoD Standard.
>
> Any idea what the unusual (for the Internet at the time) Packet Radio 
> secrecy was about...?
>
> /Jack
>
> On 4/21/26 02:01, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>> thanks for this additional gloss, Len - I had not remembered the prtn
>> series so it is good to have that reference in this list. Modeling and
>> analysis of networks was the primary focus of the network measurement
>> center. Had you not drawn steve crocker, jon postel and me into your 
>> lab,
>> we might never have had the amazing careers we actually have had.
>>
>> v
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:58 AM Leonard Kleinrock via 
>> Internet-history <
>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Here are some thoughts to add to the group’s email thread regarding 
>>> packet
>>> radio, material of which some of you are aware, but perhaps it will add
>>> value for others of you.
>>>
>>> In addition to the implementation of testbeds and demos, there was a
>>> significant level of effort on the theory and performance issues
>>> surrounding packet radio.  As Vint said, Bob Kahn began the packet 
>>> radio
>>> program at ARPA and among the first documents to be produced were the
>>> Packet Radio Temporary Notes (PRTNs).  (Here I quote liberally from 
>>> the key
>>> site that makes available these notes), namely,
>>> https://archive.org/details/packet-radio-temporary-notes?sort=date. 
>>> These
>>> notes were a series of informal,  technical documents distributed by
>>> various technology organizations from 1972 through 1983. Their 
>>> purpose was
>>> to share research, experimentation, and development progress related to
>>> packet radio.  Regarding the word “Temporary”,  unlike polished
>>> publications, PRTNs were often quick releases of ideas, experiments, 
>>> and
>>> software related to packet radio. They allowed for rapid sharing of
>>> insights without waiting for formal publication.  The organizations 
>>> that
>>> were involved included ARPA, Bolt Beranek and Newman, Network Analysis
>>> Corporation, Rockwell International, SRI International, Stanford
>>> University, UCLA, University of Hawaii, and Xerox PARC.
>>>
>>> These Notes contained much of the early theoretical work on packet 
>>> radio
>>> which then found their way into the major journals and conferences on
>>> subject.   Along the way, the analytical modeling, analysis and
>>> optimization of the packet radio effort has led to a vibrant field 
>>> of study
>>> and implementation and has contributed in no small way to the 
>>> success of
>>> packet radio and beyond.
>>>
>>> Bob Kahn was a lead author on a 1978 paper, “Advances in Packet Radio
>>> Technology” <
>>> https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=1455420> which
>>> described the basic concepts of packet radio technology at that 
>>> time, and
>>> described an implementation of the packet radio network (called PRnet).
>>>
>>> Not long after, in 1982, Vint published “Packet Satellite Technology
>>> Reference Sources” <
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc829?utm_source=chatgpt.com> as
>>> RFC 829 in which he described the packet satellite technology and 
>>> gave an
>>> extensive list of references that included many of the theoretical
>>> performance and modeling papers that had been published.
>>>
>>> Then, in 1987, Jubin and Tornow published a paper, “The DARPA Packet 
>>> Radio
>>> Network Protocols” <
>>> https://ia800306.us.archive.org/20/items/DARPA_Packet_Radio_Network_Protocols/DARPA%20Packet%20Radio%20Network%20Protocols.pdf> 
>>>
>>> describing the state of the PRNet and focused on the protocols.
>>>
>>> It is no surprise that Kahn’s packet radio work is tightly linked to 
>>> his
>>> collaboration with Vint which led to their design of TCP/IP. In some 
>>> ways,
>>> packet radio was a stress test for TCP/IP under the extreme 
>>> conditions of
>>> loss, delay and mobility due to different underlying media and 
>>> networks.
>>> One can trace the lineage from ARPANET packet switching (wired, fixed
>>> nodes) to PRNET packet radio (wireless, networked, mobile nodes) to
>>> Internet (ARPANET + PRNET + SATNET).  The wireless side then moved to
>>> Survivable Adaptive Radio Networks (SURAN) and then to Mobile Ad Hoc
>>> Networks (MANETs) and now modern wireless ad hoc systems.
>>>
>>> Hope this brief history is of some interest.
>>>
>>> Len
>>> -- 
>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>> -
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> https://app.smartsheet.com/b/form/9b6ef0621638436ab0a9b23cb0668b0b?The%20list%20to%20be%20unsubscribed%20from=Internet-history 
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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