[ih] Anyone have a copy of IEN-33?

Wed Jan 29 22:10:55 PST 2025

Hi, Jack,

> On Jan 29, 2025, at 8:55 PM, Jack Haverty <jack at 3kitty.org> wrote:
> 
> Joe,
> 
> There were apparently lots of materials kept in computer files, such as the <internet-notebook> directory Jon's notes mention.  Did ISI keep backups on magtape?   If so, those old directories may still be recoverable and may contain historical records.

They did not. I know because I had tried to retrieve the archive of the E2E-interest list after a virus took out active system and found out there were no backups and they had discarded the tapes from the previous system (TOPS-20?), which is why the online repository goes back only to 2001. They did the same with their entire tech report library in 2006.

NB: if anyone here cares about the stuff at postel.org, I encourage you to grab it and back it up somewhere. I moved the entire Internet-history list - archives and all - here exactly so it would be more stable.

> MIT kept backup tapes back from the 1970s and recently (last ten years or so) made them available to researchers and/or their original owners.  Lars and the ITS-Hackers group have made good use of the MIT tapes to resurrect ancient PDP-10 code and actually get it running again.

I’m aware; Rick Shiffman has been busy lately restoring muddle to operational status from those tapes.

> If ISI and/or SRI similarly kept backup tapes from half-a-century ago, they might be a useful resource for historians.   ISIA was where many ARPA people had their mailboxes; SRI had all of the NIC materials.
> 
> But we still have the problem of where to put such stuff for "perpetual" archival storage.....

Yes, that’s an additional problem.

Joe

> 
> Jack
> 
> On 1/29/25 20:16, touch at strayalpha.com <mailto:touch at strayalpha.com> wrote:
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> I had them scanned for the USC/ISI Postel Center (when such a thing existed; its website has bit-rot).
>> 
>> #33 has been missing as long as I have been looking (roughly early 1990s) in every compilation I have checked. If anyone has it, please let me know.
>> 
>> For #9, 125, and 126, I have text but the paper could not be scanned at the time (I don’t recall why - might have had severe contrast issues). If anyone has a scan of those, please let me know.
>> 
>> I will be re-posting my archive of these at my website (strayalpha.com) shortly.
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> —
>> Dr. Joe Touch, temporal epistemologist
>> www.strayalpha.com <http://www.strayalpha.com/>
>> 
>>> On Jan 29, 2025, at 5:02 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> thanks Jack - little was kept at ARPA except for ARPA Orders.
>>> I don't have the IENs - stupid me for not collecting them all religiously.
>>> 
>>> v
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 7:57 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
>>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> My book of IENs, collected as they were issued, is also missing IEN 33.
>>>> Have you seen any evidence that IEN 33 was ever actually released as an
>>>> IEN?   I know there were some RFCs and/or IENs that were assigned
>>>> numbers but never actually produced.   I authored one RFC in the 700s
>>>> myself but never actually wrote it.
>>>> 
>>>> I DO have a copy of "TCP Meeting Notes" sent by Jon Postel to the email
>>>> address [ISIE]<Postel>TCP-INTERNET.List   It documents the meeting of
>>>> 15-16 June 1978 held at MIT.  There's no indication that it was also
>>>> released as an IEN.   The email does say that the file is (was)
>>>> available online at <internet-notebook>TCP-MEETING-NOTES.TXT at ISIE.
>>>> 
>>>> It looks like the typical meeting report of the time, containing a
>>>> record of Vint's goals for the meeting, followed by status reports from
>>>> each contractor.
>>>> 
>>>> Among Vint's goals: "The format of the TCP and INTERNET headers is to be
>>>> firmly decided at this meeting", "The schedule for implementation of
>>>> version 4 is to be established.", "The schedule for Telnet and FTP
>>>> running on TCP is to be established.", and "the whole ARPANET community
>>>> should expect to move to using TCP".
>>>> 
>>>> So the planning for the eventual 1/1/1983 Flag Day started sometime
>>>> before June 1978.
>>>> 
>>>> Vint's introduction was followed by discussions of various topics, and
>>>> even some votes:
>>>> 
>>>> "Shall the Port be part of the Internet Header?"
>>>> Result: NO.
>>>> "Shall the Port be part of the TCP Header?"
>>>> Result: NO.
>>>> 
>>>> The process of evolving from TCP 2 to TCP 4 resembled sausage
>>>> making....achieving consensus wasn't easy.
>>>> 
>>>> I also have the notes I took at the meeting.  Big meetings happened
>>>> quarterly, so it seems unlikely that there was a meeting in mid-June
>>>> following one only 6 weeks earlier.  Perhaps the May 1-2 meeting was
>>>> cancelled and rescheduled into mid June?
>>>> 
>>>> Jack
>>>> 
>>>> PS - I don't recall anything being kept "at ARPA"; most stuff was kept
>>>> at contractors' sites, often SRI or ISI.
>>>> 
>>>> On 1/29/25 14:25, Noel Chiappa via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>> The IEN repository at the RFC Editor is missing this one; I ask because
>>>> the
>>>>> IEN's for the minutes of the meetings are all there, except this one.
>>>>> (Bennett, "Internet Meeting Notes - 1&2 May 1978). Not super-important
>>>>> (compared to say, the email archive of the TCP/IP email list at the time,
>>>>> which I think was at DARPA - but maybe at a contractor), but it would be
>>>> nice
>>>>> to have.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oh, I've found some evidence that I wasn't the only one who called that
>>>> group
>>>>> the 'Internet Working Group' (r.e. my original query); I don't remember
>>>> all
>>>>> the instances I've seen, but IEN-60 is entitled "Boston Area Meeting of
>>>> the
>>>>> Internet Working Group to Discuss Interactions With Gateways".
>>>>> 
>>>>>      Noel
>>>>> 
>>>>> PS: Craig's email reminds me of another password story. Proteon put a
>>>> field
>>>>> service password in the Proteon routers. So Milo gets the load, and
>>>> thinks
>>>>> 'Gee, I should try running 'strings' on this'; he does so, and see an odd
>>>>> string (near the 'Password:' prompt, IIRC). He tries it, and it lets him
>>>> in.
>>>>> He complains. So in the _next_ release, he runs 'strings' over it, and
>>>> sees
>>>>> the string 'Sorry Milo, it's not so easy this time!'
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:Internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
>>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
>>> Vint Cerf
>>> Google, LLC
>>> 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor
>>> Reston, VA 20190
>>> +1 (571) 213 1346
>>> 
>>> 
>>> until further notice
>>> -- 
>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:Internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>> 
> 
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