[ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth of the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in Athens, Greece]

Mon Jun 17 13:08:57 PDT 2024

thanks Steve - yes "Star TAP" was the term I was searching for.

v

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 4:06 PM Steven G. Huter via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> NSF award info about STAR TAP - Science, Technology And Research Transit
> Access Point
>
> 1997-2000
>
> https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=9712283
>
> Continuation award to 2005
>
>
> https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=9980480&HistoricalAwards=false
>
> Steve Huter
>
> On 6/14/24 4:16 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
> > Seems like some such
> >
> > V
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 15:35 Guy Almes <galmes at tamu.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> StarTap?
> >>          -- Guy
> >>
> >> On 6/14/24 2:53 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
> >>> or possibly through an NSF sponsored IXP in Chicago? "star-something?"
> >>>
> >>> v
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 2:47 PM John Day via Internet-history <
> >>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> If I remember correctly, for quite sometime in the 90s, the cheapest
> and
> >>>> fastest route intra-European for all of them was through Northern
> >> Virginia.
> >>>>> On Jun 14, 2024, at 12:30, Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
> >>>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >>>>> The situation in EU in the 1990+- time frame also impacted networking
> >>>> outside of academia.  At the time, I was involved in deploying and
> >>>> operating a private internet (a corporate "intranet") in 100+
> countries.
> >>>> In one case, we had two offices in Europe that could literally
> (almost)
> >> see
> >>>> each other across a river.   But they were in two different countries.
> >> Due
> >>>> to the PTT tariffs and constraints, it was far less expensive to
> lease a
> >>>> trans-atlantic circuit from each city to New York than it was to
> lease a
> >>>> circuit across that river between the two countries.
> >>>>> So all of our IP traffic crossing that river travelled thousands of
> >>>> miles "across the pond" (Atlantic) to New York City and back.   CEPT
> may
> >>>> have made an exception to allow interconnections for academic
> >> networking,
> >>>> but that policy hadn't spread to the rest of us yet.   I don't know
> when
> >>>> those rules changed.
> >>>>> Jack Haverty
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 6/14/24 08:48, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
> >>>>>> that was quite a barrier to networking in the EU - thanks to EARN
> for
> >>>>>> making the case.
> >>>>>> v
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 11:42 AM Daniele Bovio via Internet-history
> <
> >>>>>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Julf,
> >>>>>>> In 1984, when EARN was established, it was illegal in Europe to
> >> provide
> >>>>>>> network services amongst different institutions/corporations within
> >>>>>>> countries and across the borders because the PTTs had the monopoly
> >> of
> >>>> voice
> >>>>>>> and data transport, so nobody could legally lease circuits amongst
> >> an
> >>>>>>> heterogeneous number of sites and offer data transport services. As
> >> a
> >>>>>>> matter of fact the EARN management was approached by the CEPT (the
> >>>> European
> >>>>>>> cooperation structure of the PTTs) threatening to shut the
> >> operations
> >>>> down
> >>>>>>> exactly for that reason. The EARN Board argued that  the purpose of
> >> the
> >>>>>>> network was to allow scientists to communicate with each other,
> i.e.
> >>>> one
> >>>>>>> homogeneous group: the Research and Academic Community, and
> >> eventually
> >>>>>>> after a lot of arguing the CEPT allowed EARN to continue to
> operate.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Daniele Bovio
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: Internet-history [mailto:
> >>>> internet-history-bounces at elists.isoc.org]
> >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Internet-history
> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 4:11 PM
> >>>>>>> To: Johan Helsingius<julf at julf.com>;
> >> internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the
> >> Birth
> >>>> of
> >>>>>>> the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in
> >>>> Athens,
> >>>>>>> Greece]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks for sharing.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In response to Julf's point --- wasn't it all academic to start
> >> with?
> >>>>>>> In the early days, academia was leading in a few countries and
> >>>>>>> EARN/NETNORTH/BITNET interfacing with local networks like JANET
> >> (where
> >>>> I
> >>>>>>> "lived").
> >>>>>>> The only alternative at the time was UUCP. (we're talking 1985-88)
> >>>> Kindest
> >>>>>>> regards,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Olivier
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 13/06/2024 14:23, Johan Helsingius via Internet-history wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Yes, very interesting discussion, but very biased towards the
> >> academic
> >>>>>>>> networks (understandable given the event and the panelists).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>      Julf
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 13/06/2024 14:16, Frantisek Borsik via Internet-history wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> It was share by RIPE on social media yesterday:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiIb97dhJA$
> >> <
> >>
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> >>>>>>>>> All the best,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Frank
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>
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> >> <
> >>
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> >>>>>>>>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
> <+421%20919%20416%20714>
> >>>> <+421%20919%20416%20714>
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> >>>> <+420%20775%20230%20885>
> >>>>>>>>> Skype: casioa5302ca
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
> >>>>>>> --
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> >> <
> >>
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> >> <
> >>
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> >> <
> >>
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> >>
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> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
> >>> Vint Cerf
> >>> Google, LLC
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> >>>
> >>>
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