[ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth of the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in Athens, Greece]
Brian E Carpenter
brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com
Mon Jun 17 13:35:55 PDT 2024
STARTAP was replaced by STARLIGHT when fibre came along. Their site is archived at https://startap.net/startap/. There are lots of details in the reports to NSF at https://startap.net/startap/PUBLICATIONS/pubAnnualReports.html
Regards
Brian Carpenter
On 18-Jun-24 08:08, vinton cerf via Internet-history wrote:
> thanks Steve - yes "Star TAP" was the term I was searching for.
>
> v
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 4:06 PM Steven G. Huter via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> NSF award info about STAR TAP - Science, Technology And Research Transit
>> Access Point
>>
>> 1997-2000
>>
>> https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=9712283
>>
>> Continuation award to 2005
>>
>>
>> https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=9980480&HistoricalAwards=false
>>
>> Steve Huter
>>
>> On 6/14/24 4:16 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>>> Seems like some such
>>>
>>> V
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 15:35 Guy Almes <galmes at tamu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> StarTap?
>>>> -- Guy
>>>>
>>>> On 6/14/24 2:53 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>> or possibly through an NSF sponsored IXP in Chicago? "star-something?"
>>>>>
>>>>> v
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 2:47 PM John Day via Internet-history <
>>>>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If I remember correctly, for quite sometime in the 90s, the cheapest
>> and
>>>>>> fastest route intra-European for all of them was through Northern
>>>> Virginia.
>>>>>>> On Jun 14, 2024, at 12:30, Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
>>>>>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> The situation in EU in the 1990+- time frame also impacted networking
>>>>>> outside of academia. At the time, I was involved in deploying and
>>>>>> operating a private internet (a corporate "intranet") in 100+
>> countries.
>>>>>> In one case, we had two offices in Europe that could literally
>> (almost)
>>>> see
>>>>>> each other across a river. But they were in two different countries.
>>>> Due
>>>>>> to the PTT tariffs and constraints, it was far less expensive to
>> lease a
>>>>>> trans-atlantic circuit from each city to New York than it was to
>> lease a
>>>>>> circuit across that river between the two countries.
>>>>>>> So all of our IP traffic crossing that river travelled thousands of
>>>>>> miles "across the pond" (Atlantic) to New York City and back. CEPT
>> may
>>>>>> have made an exception to allow interconnections for academic
>>>> networking,
>>>>>> but that policy hadn't spread to the rest of us yet. I don't know
>> when
>>>>>> those rules changed.
>>>>>>> Jack Haverty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/14/24 08:48, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>>>>> that was quite a barrier to networking in the EU - thanks to EARN
>> for
>>>>>>>> making the case.
>>>>>>>> v
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 11:42 AM Daniele Bovio via Internet-history
>> <
>>>>>>>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Julf,
>>>>>>>>> In 1984, when EARN was established, it was illegal in Europe to
>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>> network services amongst different institutions/corporations within
>>>>>>>>> countries and across the borders because the PTTs had the monopoly
>>>> of
>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>>>> and data transport, so nobody could legally lease circuits amongst
>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> heterogeneous number of sites and offer data transport services. As
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> matter of fact the EARN management was approached by the CEPT (the
>>>>>> European
>>>>>>>>> cooperation structure of the PTTs) threatening to shut the
>>>> operations
>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>> exactly for that reason. The EARN Board argued that the purpose of
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> network was to allow scientists to communicate with each other,
>> i.e.
>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> homogeneous group: the Research and Academic Community, and
>>>> eventually
>>>>>>>>> after a lot of arguing the CEPT allowed EARN to continue to
>> operate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daniele Bovio
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Internet-history [mailto:
>>>>>> internet-history-bounces at elists.isoc.org]
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Internet-history
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 4:11 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Johan Helsingius<julf at julf.com>;
>>>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the
>>>> Birth
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in
>>>>>> Athens,
>>>>>>>>> Greece]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In response to Julf's point --- wasn't it all academic to start
>>>> with?
>>>>>>>>> In the early days, academia was leading in a few countries and
>>>>>>>>> EARN/NETNORTH/BITNET interfacing with local networks like JANET
>>>> (where
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> "lived").
>>>>>>>>> The only alternative at the time was UUCP. (we're talking 1985-88)
>>>>>> Kindest
>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Olivier
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 13/06/2024 14:23, Johan Helsingius via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, very interesting discussion, but very biased towards the
>>>> academic
>>>>>>>>>> networks (understandable given the event and the panelists).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Julf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 13/06/2024 14:16, Frantisek Borsik via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> It was share by RIPE on social media yesterday:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiIb97dhJA$
>>>> <
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiIb97dhJA$
>>>>>>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Frank
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiINKVhmVw$
>>>> <
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiINKVhmVw$
>>>>>>>>>>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
>> <+421%20919%20416%20714>
>>>>>> <+421%20919%20416%20714>
>>>>>>>>>>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 <+420%20775%20230%20885>
>>>>>> <+420%20775%20230%20885>
>>>>>>>>>>> Skype: casioa5302ca
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>> <
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>> <
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>> <
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>> <
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
>>>>> Vint Cerf
>>>>> Google, LLC
>>>>> 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor
>>>>> Reston, VA 20190
>>>>> +1 (571) 213 1346
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> until further notice
>>>>> --
>>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>> <
>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>>>
>> --
>> Internet-history mailing list
>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>
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