[ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth of the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in Athens, Greece]

Mon Jun 17 13:06:18 PDT 2024

NSF award info about STAR TAP - Science, Technology And Research Transit 
Access Point

1997-2000

https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=9712283

Continuation award to 2005

https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=9980480&HistoricalAwards=false

Steve Huter

On 6/14/24 4:16 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
> Seems like some such
>
> V
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 15:35 Guy Almes <galmes at tamu.edu> wrote:
>
>> StarTap?
>>          -- Guy
>>
>> On 6/14/24 2:53 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>>> or possibly through an NSF sponsored IXP in Chicago? "star-something?"
>>>
>>> v
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 2:47 PM John Day via Internet-history <
>>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I remember correctly, for quite sometime in the 90s, the cheapest and
>>>> fastest route intra-European for all of them was through Northern
>> Virginia.
>>>>> On Jun 14, 2024, at 12:30, Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
>>>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>> The situation in EU in the 1990+- time frame also impacted networking
>>>> outside of academia.  At the time, I was involved in deploying and
>>>> operating a private internet (a corporate "intranet") in 100+ countries.
>>>> In one case, we had two offices in Europe that could literally (almost)
>> see
>>>> each other across a river.   But they were in two different countries.
>> Due
>>>> to the PTT tariffs and constraints, it was far less expensive to lease a
>>>> trans-atlantic circuit from each city to New York than it was to lease a
>>>> circuit across that river between the two countries.
>>>>> So all of our IP traffic crossing that river travelled thousands of
>>>> miles "across the pond" (Atlantic) to New York City and back.   CEPT may
>>>> have made an exception to allow interconnections for academic
>> networking,
>>>> but that policy hadn't spread to the rest of us yet.   I don't know when
>>>> those rules changed.
>>>>> Jack Haverty
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/14/24 08:48, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>>> that was quite a barrier to networking in the EU - thanks to EARN for
>>>>>> making the case.
>>>>>> v
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 11:42 AM Daniele Bovio via Internet-history <
>>>>>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Julf,
>>>>>>> In 1984, when EARN was established, it was illegal in Europe to
>> provide
>>>>>>> network services amongst different institutions/corporations within
>>>>>>> countries and across the borders because the PTTs had the monopoly
>> of
>>>> voice
>>>>>>> and data transport, so nobody could legally lease circuits amongst
>> an
>>>>>>> heterogeneous number of sites and offer data transport services. As
>> a
>>>>>>> matter of fact the EARN management was approached by the CEPT (the
>>>> European
>>>>>>> cooperation structure of the PTTs) threatening to shut the
>> operations
>>>> down
>>>>>>> exactly for that reason. The EARN Board argued that  the purpose of
>> the
>>>>>>> network was to allow scientists to communicate with each other, i.e.
>>>> one
>>>>>>> homogeneous group: the Research and Academic Community, and
>> eventually
>>>>>>> after a lot of arguing the CEPT allowed EARN to continue to operate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniele Bovio
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Internet-history [mailto:
>>>> internet-history-bounces at elists.isoc.org]
>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Internet-history
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 4:11 PM
>>>>>>> To: Johan Helsingius<julf at julf.com>;
>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the
>> Birth
>>>> of
>>>>>>> the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in
>>>> Athens,
>>>>>>> Greece]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In response to Julf's point --- wasn't it all academic to start
>> with?
>>>>>>> In the early days, academia was leading in a few countries and
>>>>>>> EARN/NETNORTH/BITNET interfacing with local networks like JANET
>> (where
>>>> I
>>>>>>> "lived").
>>>>>>> The only alternative at the time was UUCP. (we're talking 1985-88)
>>>> Kindest
>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Olivier
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 13/06/2024 14:23, Johan Helsingius via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes, very interesting discussion, but very biased towards the
>> academic
>>>>>>>> networks (understandable given the event and the panelists).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      Julf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 13/06/2024 14:16, Frantisek Borsik via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>>>>>> It was share by RIPE on social media yesterday:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiIb97dhJA$
>> <
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiIb97dhJA$
>>>>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frank
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiINKVhmVw$
>> <
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiINKVhmVw$
>>>>>>>>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 <+421%20919%20416%20714>
>>>> <+421%20919%20416%20714>
>>>>>>>>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 <+420%20775%20230%20885>
>>>> <+420%20775%20230%20885>
>>>>>>>>> Skype: casioa5302ca
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>>>
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>> <
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>>>
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>> <
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiLKM5b3Sw$
>>>>> --
>>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>
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>> <
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>>>>
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>> <
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
>>> Vint Cerf
>>> Google, LLC
>>> 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor
>>> Reston, VA 20190
>>> +1 (571) 213 1346
>>>
>>>
>>> until further notice
>>> --
>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>
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>> <
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>>>