[ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth of the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in Athens, Greece]

Fri Jun 14 16:16:30 PDT 2024

Seems like some such

V

On Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 15:35 Guy Almes <galmes at tamu.edu> wrote:

> StarTap?
>         -- Guy
>
> On 6/14/24 2:53 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
> > or possibly through an NSF sponsored IXP in Chicago? "star-something?"
> >
> > v
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 2:47 PM John Day via Internet-history <
> > internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >
> >> If I remember correctly, for quite sometime in the 90s, the cheapest and
> >> fastest route intra-European for all of them was through Northern
> Virginia.
> >>
> >> > On Jun 14, 2024, at 12:30, Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
> >> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > The situation in EU in the 1990+- time frame also impacted networking
> >> outside of academia.  At the time, I was involved in deploying and
> >> operating a private internet (a corporate "intranet") in 100+ countries.
> >> In one case, we had two offices in Europe that could literally (almost)
> see
> >> each other across a river.   But they were in two different countries.
> Due
> >> to the PTT tariffs and constraints, it was far less expensive to lease a
> >> trans-atlantic circuit from each city to New York than it was to lease a
> >> circuit across that river between the two countries.
> >> >
> >> > So all of our IP traffic crossing that river travelled thousands of
> >> miles "across the pond" (Atlantic) to New York City and back.   CEPT may
> >> have made an exception to allow interconnections for academic
> networking,
> >> but that policy hadn't spread to the rest of us yet.   I don't know when
> >> those rules changed.
> >> >
> >> > Jack Haverty
> >> >
> >> > On 6/14/24 08:48, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
> >> >> that was quite a barrier to networking in the EU - thanks to EARN for
> >> >> making the case.
> >> >> v
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 11:42 AM Daniele Bovio via Internet-history <
> >> >> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Julf,
> >> >>> In 1984, when EARN was established, it was illegal in Europe to
> provide
> >> >>> network services amongst different institutions/corporations within
> >> >>> countries and across the borders because the PTTs had the monopoly
> of
> >> voice
> >> >>> and data transport, so nobody could legally lease circuits amongst
> an
> >> >>> heterogeneous number of sites and offer data transport services. As
> a
> >> >>> matter of fact the EARN management was approached by the CEPT (the
> >> European
> >> >>> cooperation structure of the PTTs) threatening to shut the
> operations
> >> down
> >> >>> exactly for that reason. The EARN Board argued that  the purpose of
> the
> >> >>> network was to allow scientists to communicate with each other, i.e.
> >> one
> >> >>> homogeneous group: the Research and Academic Community, and
> eventually
> >> >>> after a lot of arguing the CEPT allowed EARN to continue to operate.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Regards
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Daniele Bovio
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> From: Internet-history [mailto:
> >> internet-history-bounces at elists.isoc.org]
> >> >>> On Behalf Of Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Internet-history
> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 4:11 PM
> >> >>> To: Johan Helsingius<julf at julf.com>;
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the
> Birth
> >> of
> >> >>> the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in
> >> Athens,
> >> >>> Greece]
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks for sharing.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> In response to Julf's point --- wasn't it all academic to start
> with?
> >> >>> In the early days, academia was leading in a few countries and
> >> >>> EARN/NETNORTH/BITNET interfacing with local networks like JANET
> (where
> >> I
> >> >>> "lived").
> >> >>> The only alternative at the time was UUCP. (we're talking 1985-88)
> >> Kindest
> >> >>> regards,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Olivier
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 13/06/2024 14:23, Johan Helsingius via Internet-history wrote:
> >> >>>> Yes, very interesting discussion, but very biased towards the
> academic
> >> >>>> networks (understandable given the event and the panelists).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>     Julf
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On 13/06/2024 14:16, Frantisek Borsik via Internet-history wrote:
> >> >>>>> It was share by RIPE on social media yesterday:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiIb97dhJA$
> <
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiIb97dhJA$
> >
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> All the best,
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Frank
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiINKVhmVw$
> <
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> >
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 <+421%20919%20416%20714>
> >> <+421%20919%20416%20714>
> >> >>>>>
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> >> <+420%20775%20230%20885>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Skype: casioa5302ca
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
> >> >>> --
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> <
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> >
> >> >>>
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> <
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> >
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > --
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> >> >
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> >
> >>
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> >>
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> >
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
> > Vint Cerf
> > Google, LLC
> > 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor
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> >
> >
> > until further notice
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> >
> >
>