[ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth of the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in Athens, Greece]

Fri Jun 14 12:35:42 PDT 2024

StarTap?
	-- Guy

On 6/14/24 2:53 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
> or possibly through an NSF sponsored IXP in Chicago? "star-something?"
> 
> v
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 2:47 PM John Day via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> 
>> If I remember correctly, for quite sometime in the 90s, the cheapest and
>> fastest route intra-European for all of them was through Northern Virginia.
>>
>> > On Jun 14, 2024, at 12:30, Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > The situation in EU in the 1990+- time frame also impacted networking
>> outside of academia.  At the time, I was involved in deploying and
>> operating a private internet (a corporate "intranet") in 100+ countries.
>> In one case, we had two offices in Europe that could literally (almost) see
>> each other across a river.   But they were in two different countries.  Due
>> to the PTT tariffs and constraints, it was far less expensive to lease a
>> trans-atlantic circuit from each city to New York than it was to lease a
>> circuit across that river between the two countries.
>> >
>> > So all of our IP traffic crossing that river travelled thousands of
>> miles "across the pond" (Atlantic) to New York City and back.   CEPT may
>> have made an exception to allow interconnections for academic networking,
>> but that policy hadn't spread to the rest of us yet.   I don't know when
>> those rules changed.
>> >
>> > Jack Haverty
>> >
>> > On 6/14/24 08:48, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>> >> that was quite a barrier to networking in the EU - thanks to EARN for
>> >> making the case.
>> >> v
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 11:42 AM Daniele Bovio via Internet-history <
>> >> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Julf,
>> >>> In 1984, when EARN was established, it was illegal in Europe to provide
>> >>> network services amongst different institutions/corporations within
>> >>> countries and across the borders because the PTTs had the monopoly of
>> voice
>> >>> and data transport, so nobody could legally lease circuits amongst an
>> >>> heterogeneous number of sites and offer data transport services. As a
>> >>> matter of fact the EARN management was approached by the CEPT (the
>> European
>> >>> cooperation structure of the PTTs) threatening to shut the operations
>> down
>> >>> exactly for that reason. The EARN Board argued that  the purpose of the
>> >>> network was to allow scientists to communicate with each other, i.e.
>> one
>> >>> homogeneous group: the Research and Academic Community, and eventually
>> >>> after a lot of arguing the CEPT allowed EARN to continue to operate.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards
>> >>>
>> >>> Daniele Bovio
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Internet-history [mailto:
>> internet-history-bounces at elists.isoc.org]
>> >>> On Behalf Of Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Internet-history
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 4:11 PM
>> >>> To: Johan Helsingius<julf at julf.com>;internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>> >>> Subject: Re: [ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth
>> of
>> >>> the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in
>> Athens,
>> >>> Greece]
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks for sharing.
>> >>>
>> >>> In response to Julf's point --- wasn't it all academic to start with?
>> >>> In the early days, academia was leading in a few countries and
>> >>> EARN/NETNORTH/BITNET interfacing with local networks like JANET (where
>> I
>> >>> "lived").
>> >>> The only alternative at the time was UUCP. (we're talking 1985-88)
>> Kindest
>> >>> regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Olivier
>> >>>
>> >>> On 13/06/2024 14:23, Johan Helsingius via Internet-history wrote:
>> >>>> Yes, very interesting discussion, but very biased towards the academic
>> >>>> networks (understandable given the event and the panelists).
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     Julf
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 13/06/2024 14:16, Frantisek Borsik via Internet-history wrote:
>> >>>>> It was share by RIPE on social media yesterday:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiIb97dhJA$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiIb97dhJA$>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> All the best,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Frank
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiINKVhmVw$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!KwNVnqRv!BPLHK8zxWJf99wIq6ugW06XFCfIxGmEVoc8OgjSJ6-hspkaRH6UDU0sfJF1JDiEg1VfFZRHx6GJHKlIHgT_UhiINKVhmVw$>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 <+421%20919%20416%20714>
>> <+421%20919%20416%20714>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 <+420%20775%20230%20885>
>> <+420%20775%20230%20885>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Skype: casioa5302ca
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
>> >>> --
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>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
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>>
> 
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