[ih] Really old list archives
Vint Cerf
vint at google.com
Wed Jan 24 13:43:58 PST 2024
that's the other MCI
v
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 4:35 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> Yes, "unappealing" is a better characterization. I recall a discussion
> at the time about the purpose of the name. Everyone on all sorts of
> networking projects wanted to be at every meeting to keep up to date and
> get their thoughts into the discussions. "Configuration Control" carried
> the stench of bureaucracy and mindless paperwork, and that stench
> successfully repelled people. It worked, and I don't recall any
> bureaucracy or paperwork in the ICCB - which might partly explain the
> lack of historical records. It was fun, and more important than we (I at
> least) ever thought at the time. Thanks!
>
> Vint - I didn't realize MCI was a bus company........
>
> Jack
>
> On 1/24/24 13:11, vinton cerf wrote:
> > the ICCB was not so much secretive as my simply trying to keep it
> > small and constrained to parties who were key to leading the Internet
> > program. I chose the name of the group to be unappealing to most people.
> >
> > It would serve to keep most of these lead players aware of the scope
> > of the program and status. This was Bob Kahn's solution to my being
> > hit by a bus.
> >
> > v
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 3:50 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history
> > <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >
> > I spelunked through some of my old notebooks (paper being the only
> > known
> > archival storage even now). I found my notes from the first ICCB
> > meeting, where Vint explained what the group would do and listed a
> > bunch
> > of problems that needed work. In addition to architectural issues
> > (like what does a host have to do, how will types of service be
> > handled,
> > etc.) there was also a focus on the "January 1983" Internet, and
> > how to
> > get rid of NCP and replace it with TCP throughout the Arpanet.
> >
> > I'm going to go through more of the notes and try to reconstruct some
> > history of the ICCB, why it was so secretive, what it did, and how it
> > evolved as Vint decided to leave ARPA. I'll post that to this list.
> > There's a lot of acronyms in my notes that need to be explained,
> > once I
> > remember what they mean (anyone know what NAAP was?)
> >
> > Meanwhile...
> >
> > The ICCB was formed and had its first meeting on September 21,
> > 1981 held
> > at University College London just prior to the quarterly meeting
> > of the
> > "Internet Project" which typically had its fall meeting in
> > Europe. I've
> > uploaded to Google Drive the first page of my notes. It should be
> > (if I
> > got it right...) accessible to all at:
> >
> >
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C5Q3b8vK_90l2rQvgieI58l6UKfM3CX8/view?usp=sharing
> >
> > That page starts with the pragmatics of the new ICCB group, e.g.,
> > meet
> > 4x a year. Then it lists "Problems" on the newly-formed ICCB's to-do
> > list. These fell into two broad categories: 1) architectural issues
> > needing research and 2) short-term pragmatic requirements such as the
> > upcoming NCP->TCP transition and making the Internet a reliable
> > operational service.
> >
> > As far as I remember, there wasn't any "ICCB" mailing list or
> > archive.
> > We all just kept our own address list using our mail apps. The group
> > was very small - perhaps 10 people or so. I haven't yet found any
> > "attendance list" but I'll keep looking. I do remember some of the
> > members that I'm sure of - Vint, Jon Postel, Dave Clark, and myself.
> > Others that I *think* were on the ICCB at the time were Bob
> > Braden, Dave
> > Mills, Jim Mathis, Ed Cain, and Ray McFarland.
> >
> > To avoid confusion now... there was another group formed at the same
> > time called the "ICB" - International Cooperation Board. Its
> > membership
> > included some of the ICCB members plus members from outside the US,
> > e.g., John Laws (RSRE) and Peter Kirstein (UCL) and perhaps also Paal
> > Spilling (NDRE/NTARE). I don't remember much about the ICB; I
> > wasn't
> > on it. I think Peter Kirstein was the Chair.
> >
> > The ICCB continued meeting a day before each Internet quarterly
> > meeting,
> > with a changing (and growing) list of problems to be worked on.
> > At the
> > September 1982 meeting held at DFVLR outside Munich, Vint
> > announced he
> > was leaving ARPA to join MCI.
> >
> > More spelunking to do.... I'll post more when I decipher my ancient
> > hieroglyphics.
> >
> > Jack Haverty
> >
> > On 1/23/24 10:01, Noel Chiappa via Internet-history wrote:
> > > {Trying to catch up...}
> > >
> > > > From: Greg Skinner
> > >
> > > > There is a file in the ietf-ftp directory called 1990-all
> > that contains
> > > > ietf list messages from 1990.
> > >
> > > That is better than nothing (considering that the Web-accessible
> > archive only
> > > starts in 1992), but it's still leaves a _enormous_ hole: the
> > 1st IETF (21
> > > attendees; held jointly held with the first InArc meeting, IIRC)
> > was in
> > > January, 1986 - so there's over 4 years of IETF list emails
> > still not
> > > available.
> > >
> > > I would guess that there's not one place that they'd all be
> > available? (If
> > > CNRI had a log file of list traffic, would they still have it
> > accessible -
> > > and if they had backups, do they still exist?)
> > >
> > > We should get some historian started on trying to track them all
> > down - who
> > > would be a likely target to take that monumental search on? The
> CHM?
> > >
> > >
> > > And I'd still like to find the name of the list that was used
> > before the ietf
> > > list existed (the name is a start; finding any of its archives
> > will be an
> > > even bigger search). Would it have been at DARPA? I'd guess not
> > - but where
> > > else? ISI, SRI or BBN?
> > >
> > > Pretty amazing that so much of the early history has been lost.
> > At least Jon
> > > did all the minutes, available as IENs.
> > >
> > > Noel
> >
> > --
> > Internet-history mailing list
> > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> >
>
> --
> Internet-history mailing list
> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>
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Vint Cerf
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