[ih] Internet/Wireless Principle of Levelness

[Dan Lynch]

I have Comcast up here for Internet. Dish for regular TV. But Netflix and Prime video go over Comcast. When I had T1 in the 90s I think it hooked into Covad!  

Dan

Cell 650-776-7313

> On Nov 11, 2019, at 1:15 PM, the keyboard of geoff goodfellow <geoff at iconia.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Dan & Jack: am curious to know WHAT kind (Cable, DSL, Fiber, ...?) of Internet connections y'all have and from WHICH providers?
> 
> pretty clear/sure neither of you have satellite (as yours truly dose here on The Big Island for backup when the "primary" cable Spectrum "service" reliably goes out -- almost monthly -- so far twice already this month and once last month :-/) at which time even a 700-1000 ms latency over the satellite link is Most Welcomed! :D
> 
> geoff
> 
>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 10:50 AM Dan Lynch via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>> Or you could have just used a kid. 15 or so years ago I had a 12 year old son who bounced back and forth between the home in the Napa Valley and the one in Los Altos. We had T1 service at both places (hot stuff in those days) and he was a gamer,of course.  He could/would not play certain games in Napa because the latency was over 30 ms!  Not so in Los Altos. He knew. And yes, for a twitchy kid 30 ms was everything. 
>> 
>> As for TV service up here I have 50 megabit service and it is excellent except for the occasional glitch like Jack described. And it may persist for a few minutes, then goes away for days. I tried calling to complain a few years ago, but nobody home.....  We have won?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> Cell 650-776-7313
>> 
>> > On Nov 11, 2019, at 11:32 AM, Jack Haverty via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>> > 
>> > On 11/11/19 8:31 AM, Dave Taht via Internet-history wrote:
>> > 
>> >> And - of course! it's got the "deep buffers" providers require.
>> > 
>> > I'm just a User now.  Just last year I helped a friend, another User,
>> > figure out why his "gaming" app, which depends on interactive behavior
>> > across the net, was sometimes unusable.  I was curious, since I also
>> > sometimes see visual and audio artifacts on streaming TV content, making
>> > TV sometimes similarly unusable, even though I have 150+ Mb/sec internet
>> > service.   We Users tend to think "Oh, the net's broken again, they're
>> > probably working on fixing it".
>> > 
>> > Using the ancient network management tools, we tracked the cause down to
>> > latency.  The typical latency we measured across the net was 100 msec or
>> > less.  But occasionally it would jump to several seconds and stay there
>> > for a while.   I was surprised to see that zero packets were being lost,
>> > but many were delayed as much as 30 seconds.  Without the ability to dig
>> > inside the boxes, I can only speculate that such behavior at the IP
>> > level was what made the gaming app unusable, and could cause those
>> > artifacts I see in my TV video and audio. 
>> > 
>> > My friend tried complaining to his ISPs' tech support, but they all said
>> > their service was working fine.  Perhaps that is a consequence of the
>> > "Levelness" that now makes Users' applications involve many different
>> > service and equipment providers?
>> > 
>> > Is this latency how Users now see the effects of those "deep buffers"? 
>> > Why would providers require a feature that makes their customers
>> > unhappy.....?
>> > 
>> > I'm still just being curious about the History of the Internet,
>> > especially how its service evolved -- as seen by the Users.
>> > 
>> > /Jack
>> > 
>> > 
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>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com
> living as The Truth is True
> http://geoff.livejournal.com  
> 
> 
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