[ih] Hourglass model question

[Steve Crocker]

Emacs is definitely not dead.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2019, at 7:20 AM, John Day <jeanjour at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> ;-) lol, 
> 
> yea, teco and emacs!  ;-)
> 
> One of my biggest complaints is cryptic user interfaces and those two were pretty close to the top of the list.
> 
> But there were a lot of people who regaled in being teco and emacs experts.
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2019, at 07:08, Vint Cerf <vint at google.com> wrote:
>> 
>> many mourn the demise of TECO....
>> 
>> :-)
>> 
>> v
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 6:46 AM John Day <jeanjour at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> There was a technical part. I thought it was mostly technical.  There was a real attempt to come up with protocols to make resource sharing a lot more seamless beyond RJE and just logging in to another system as a timesharing user. Things to facilitate running a distributed program over more than one machine, etc.  There were probably 5 or 6 new protocols being proposed to develop.  I don’t remember what they were now, but could dig it out.
>>> 
>>> The one I do remember from the first meeting was, that someone proposed that we needed a common editor. (Remember the ‘my editor’s better than your editor! debates’?), ;-) 
>>> 
>>> I remember thinking ‘o, good grief given the debates we had over FTP, this is going to go forever!’ Padlipsky piped up and said, ’The example PL/1 program in the Multics Programmers Manual is a simple editor. Lets just use that.’ The reaction was, 'sure why not' and the discussion was over in minutes. Total shock.  And within a few weeks there were NETEDs all over the ’Net.  (And I don’t think any of them were exactly the same.) ;-) They just couldn’t resist the temptation to ‘improve’ it.  ;-)
>>> 
>>> Take care,
>>> John
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 5, 2019, at 23:59, Steve Crocker <steve at shinkuro.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks.  Key word lobbying.  I didn’t see anything technical.
>>>> 
>>>> Steve
>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 11:56 PM Dave Crocker <dhc at dcrocker.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 7/5/2019 7:24 PM, Steve Crocker wrote:
>>>>> > With apology, what was USING?
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 10:23 PM John Day <jeanjour at comcast.net 
>>>>> > <mailto:jeanjour at comcast.net>> wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> >     If collaboration of people was one of the main goals, why was USING
>>>>> >     turned off? That seemed to be a hot bed of collaboration with great
>>>>> >     potential.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> USING was the Users Interest Network Group.  I co-chaired it with Nancy 
>>>>> Neigus, and the 'sponsorship' of Craig Fields, then of Arpa:
>>>>> 
>>>>>       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc585/
>>>>> 
>>>>> It was yet-another very early and spontaneous effort, with an initial 
>>>>> task of figuring what it was for.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The RFC summarized this as:
>>>>> 
>>>>>     The group will devote itself to lobbying on behalf of user interests,
>>>>>     to promoting and facilitating resource sharing, to improving user
>>>>>     interfaces (support), and to studies of standardization.  The
>>>>>     ultimate goal will be provide users identification of, and
>>>>>     facilitated access to, whatever resources on the Network they might
>>>>>     wish to use.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've seen various explanations of why we shut down, but my own 
>>>>> recollection is that we simply could not gain enough traction.  That is, 
>>>>> not a broad enough based of community interest.
>>>>> 
>>>>> d/
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Dave Crocker
>>>>> Brandenburg InternetWorking
>>>>> bbiw.net
>>> 
>>> _______
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> New postal address:
>> Google
>> 1875 Explorer Street, 10th Floor
>> Reston, VA 20190
> 
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