[ih] reinventing the wheel, was Internet History Lives on the Internet?

[Richard Bennett]

Perhaps you can explain that the term "EFFECTIVELY multicast” means to you, and how it applies to BitTorrent. Every time I’ve looked at it in Wireshark I see nothing but unicast. 

RB

> On Feb 26, 2019, at 10:01 AM, Miles Fidelman <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net> wrote:
> 
> Well, that's not how it's supposed to work.  Or claimed to work.
> 
> On 2/25/19 8:27 PM, Richard Bennett wrote:
>> Naw, it’s all unicast with plenty of redundant traffic moving along long routes. 
>> 
>>> On Feb 25, 2019, at 5:49 PM, Miles Fidelman <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net <mailto:mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> That's not what anybody said.  It's EFFECTIVELY multicast - avoiding redundant traffic when more than one destination is downloading the same file, at the same time.  That's its whole point.  (Or as someone else put it, it's a caching mechanism.)
>>> 
>>> Miles
>>> 
>>> On 2/25/19 4:24 PM, Richard Bennett wrote:
>>>> Bittorrent doesn’t use multicast.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 25, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Miles Fidelman <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net <mailto:mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well yes, but torrent is a distribution mechanism - it's not an infrastructure for maintaining or mirroring files.  It's essentially another, sometimes more efficient, option for click-to-download (e.g., ftp, http, bittorrent).  And it's only more efficient if multiple people are downloading at the same time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Miles
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/25/19 12:28 PM, Richard Bennett wrote:
>>>>>> No, Bittorrent uses DHTs and accesses as many copies of a given file as users choose to share. It has to be running to serve files, however.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> RB
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Miles Fidelman <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net <mailto:mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/24/19 9:53 PM, John Levine wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> That's what I find intriguing about my Benevolent BotNet notion.  Rather
>>>>>>>>> than depending on finding an institution interested in, competent at,
>>>>>>>>> and willing to save history, and hoping that it has longevity, you rely
>>>>>>>>> on a network of volunteers to provide that survivable infrastructure by
>>>>>>>>> volunteering their excess computing resources.
>>>>>>>> Hi again.  Please look at Bittorrent and tell us how it is different
>>>>>>>> from what you're proposing.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bittorrent has the advantage of already existing and being deployed
>>>>>>>> all over the world.  It's notorious for pirated music but it's also
>>>>>>>> widely used for sharing linux distributions and the like.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bit torrent is transient.  It's more like an ad-hoc multi-cast 
>>>>>>> streaming.  When nobody is downloading, there may be only one copy of 
>>>>>>> the file.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now gnutella, and some of the other P2P file sharing systems - that 
>>>>>>> replicate copies, or distribute files across a distributed hash table - 
>>>>>>> that's another story entirely.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>>>>>>> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______
>>>>>>> internet-history mailing list
>>>>>>> internet-history at postel.org <mailto:internet-history at postel.org>
>>>>>>> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history <http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history>
>>>>>>> Contact list-owner at postel.org <mailto:list-owner at postel.org> for assistance.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> —
>>>>>> Richard Bennett
>>>>>> High Tech Forum <http://hightechforum.org/> Founder
>>>>>> Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Internet Policy Consultant
>>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>>>>> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>>>> 
>>>> —
>>>> Richard Bennett
>>>> High Tech Forum <http://hightechforum.org/> Founder
>>>> Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator
>>>> 
>>>> Internet Policy Consultant
>>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>>> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>>> _______
>>> internet-history mailing list
>>> internet-history at postel.org <mailto:internet-history at postel.org>
>>> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history <http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history>
>>> Contact list-owner at postel.org <mailto:list-owner at postel.org> for assistance.
>> 
>> —
>> Richard Bennett
>> High Tech Forum <http://hightechforum.org/> Founder
>> Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator
>> 
>> Internet Policy Consultant
>> 
> -- 
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
> _______
> internet-history mailing list
> internet-history at postel.org
> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.

—
Richard Bennett
High Tech Forum <http://hightechforum.org/> Founder
Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator

Internet Policy Consultant

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