<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Perhaps you can explain that the term "EFFECTIVELY multicast” means to you, and how it applies to BitTorrent. Every time I’ve looked at it in Wireshark I see nothing but unicast. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">RB<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 26, 2019, at 10:01 AM, Miles Fidelman <<a href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net" class="">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
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  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">Well, that's not how it's supposed to work.  Or claimed to work.<br class="">
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/25/19 8:27 PM, Richard Bennett
      wrote:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:DF2F5D32-F5E7-4012-86EE-AD5C6FBD6384@bennett.com" class="">
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      Naw, it’s all unicast with plenty of redundant traffic moving
      along long routes. <br class="">
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">On Feb 25, 2019, at 5:49 PM, Miles Fidelman <<a href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>>
            wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div class="">
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            <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">That's not what anybody said.  It's
                EFFECTIVELY multicast - avoiding redundant traffic when
                more than one destination is downloading the same file,
                at the same time.  That's its whole point.  (Or as
                someone else put it, it's a caching mechanism.)<br class="">
              </p><p class="">Miles<br class="">
              </p>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/25/19 4:24 PM, Richard
                Bennett wrote:<br class="">
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:05BFAD28-1DCF-49D5-8B09-EF32ADB33FF1@bennett.com" class="">
                <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
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                Bittorrent doesn’t use multicast.<br class="">
                <div class=""><br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div class="">On Feb 25, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Miles
                      Fidelman <<a href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>>
                      wrote:</div>
                    <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                    <div class="">
                      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                      <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">Well yes, but torrent is a
                          distribution mechanism - it's not an
                          infrastructure for maintaining or mirroring
                          files.  It's essentially another, sometimes
                          more efficient, option for click-to-download
                          (e.g., ftp, http, bittorrent).  And it's only
                          more efficient if multiple people are
                          downloading at the same time.</p><p class="">Miles<br class="">
                        </p>
                        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/25/19 12:28
                          PM, Richard Bennett wrote:<br class="">
                        </div>
                        <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:D7B46270-AD5E-4BD4-9ACD-41760F700AFE@bennett.com" class="">
                          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                          No, Bittorrent uses DHTs and accesses as many
                          copies of a given file as users choose to
                          share. It has to be running to serve files,
                          however.
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">RB<br class="">
                            <div class=""><br class="">
                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                <div class="">On Feb 25, 2019, at 9:59
                                  AM, Miles Fidelman <<a href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>>
                                  wrote:</div>
                                <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class="">On 2/24/19 9:53 PM, John
                                    Levine wrote:<br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">That's
                                        what I find intriguing about my
                                        Benevolent BotNet notion. 
                                        Rather<br class="">
                                        than depending on finding an
                                        institution interested in,
                                        competent at,<br class="">
                                        and willing to save history, and
                                        hoping that it has longevity,
                                        you rely<br class="">
                                        on a network of volunteers to
                                        provide that survivable
                                        infrastructure by<br class="">
                                        volunteering their excess
                                        computing resources.<br class="">
                                      </blockquote>
                                      Hi again.  Please look at
                                      Bittorrent and tell us how it is
                                      different<br class="">
                                      from what you're proposing.<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      Bittorrent has the advantage of
                                      already existing and being
                                      deployed<br class="">
                                      all over the world.  It's
                                      notorious for pirated music but
                                      it's also<br class="">
                                      widely used for sharing linux
                                      distributions and the like.<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                    </blockquote>
                                    Bit torrent is transient.  It's more
                                    like an ad-hoc multi-cast <br class="">
                                    streaming.  When nobody is
                                    downloading, there may be only one
                                    copy of <br class="">
                                    the file.<br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    Now gnutella, and some of the other
                                    P2P file sharing systems - that <br class="">
                                    replicate copies, or distribute
                                    files across a distributed hash
                                    table - <br class="">
                                    that's another story entirely.<br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    -- <br class="">
                                    In theory, there is no difference
                                    between theory and practice.<br class="">
                                    In practice, there is.  .... Yogi
                                    Berra<br class="">
                                    <br class="">
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                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
                            <br class="">
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                                  <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
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                                    Bennett<br class="">
                                    <a href="http://hightechforum.org/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">High
                                      Tech Forum</a> Founder</div>
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                                    & Wi-Fi standards co-creator</div>
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                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra</pre>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                <br class="">
                <div class="">
                  <div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
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                    after-white-space;" class="">
                    <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
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                      after-white-space;" class="">—<br class="">
                      <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
                        -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
                        after-white-space;" class="">Richard Bennett<br class="">
                        <a href="http://hightechforum.org/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">High Tech Forum</a> Founder</div>
                      <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
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                        after-white-space;" class="">Ethernet &
                        Wi-Fi standards co-creator</div>
                      <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
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                        Consultant</div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <br class="">
              </blockquote>
              <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra</pre>
            </div>
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      <br class="">
      <div class="">
        <div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
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            <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
              -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Richard
              Bennett<br class="">
              <a href="http://hightechforum.org/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">High Tech Forum</a> Founder</div>
            <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
              -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Ethernet
              & Wi-Fi standards co-creator</div>
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            <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
              -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Internet
              Policy Consultant</div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br class="">
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra</pre>
  </div>

_______<br class="">internet-history mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:internet-history@postel.org" class="">internet-history@postel.org</a><br class="">http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history<br class="">Contact list-owner@postel.org for assistance.<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">—<br class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Richard Bennett<br class=""><a href="http://hightechforum.org" class="">High Tech Forum</a> Founder</div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator</div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Internet Policy Consultant</div></div></div>
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