[ih] Origination date for the Internet

[Vint Cerf]

Guy,

You are making an interesting assumption I think. The way I understood
CIX is that it was an ethernet with three routers, one each operated
by PSI, UUnet and CERFnet. There isn't a unique "CIX router". There
are three of them. Does that help?

v


On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Guy Almes <galmes at tamu.edu> wrote:
> John,
>  My question was really about the original PSI/ UUnet/ CERFnet design and, I
> guess to make it interesting, you'd have to posit a 4th member, just say
> FOOnet.
>  Suppose PSI and UUnet each have routes to a given destination D that does
> not involve going through the CIX router.
>  Suppose CERFnet and FOOnet connect to the CIX router and need to get to D.
>  Suppose, further, that CERFnet would prefer to get to D via PSI and that
> FOOnet would prefer to get to D via UUnet.
>  What would be the routing table entry in the CIX router for D?
>  How would "bilateral" agreements help?
>  This has puzzled me for almost 20 years,
>        -- Guy
>
> On 10/28/10 8:45 PM, John Curran wrote:
>>
>> Guy -
>>
>>   Routing policies between peers over the CIX were agreed to on
>>   a bilateral basis, just as most peering is done today. The only
>>   exception I know of was due to the CIX/ANS interconnection and
>>   combits quandary, which resulted in ANS being a transit network
>>   for select NSF regional network who joined the CIX.  Paul Vixie
>>   was the network engineer configuring the CIX router over most of
>>   its operational life, and could supply the specific details...
>>
>> /John
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Guy Almes wrote:
>>
>>> Richard,
>>>  Right.
>>>  The original CIX was in 1991 and, interestingly, done as a router rather
>>> than a switch.  And with a T1 circuit coming from each participant.  I
>>> always wondered how PSI, UUnet, and CERFnet agreed on routing policies.
>>>   -- Guy
>>>
>>> On 10/28/10 7:37 PM, Richard Bennett wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 3Com was founded way back in '79, but it took Ron Crane a while to
>>>> figure out the black brick; I think their Multibus adapter was about
>>>> '81. The first single-chip Ethernet controller, the SEEQ 8001, didn't go
>>>> into production until '83.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, as far as I can tell, the first CIX was a Cisco 7500 that connected
>>>> PSI, UUNET, and Cerfnet somewhere around McLean, VA in 1991. It was
>>>> moved to Palo Alto shortly afterward.
>>>>
>>>> PAIX came long in 1996 as a carrier-neutral NAP alternative.
>>>>
>>>> RB
>>>>
>>>> On 10/28/2010 3:25 PM, Vint Cerf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> beats me - 3COM was in operation by then and Berkeley BSD 4.x had also
>>>>> been released, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> v
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Guy Almes<galmes at tamu.edu>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Vint et al.,
>>>>>> I wonder about how many (mostly departmental) LANs were running
>>>>>> TCP/IP and
>>>>>> connected to the ARPAnet by 1-Jan-83?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Guy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/28/10 4:44 PM, Vint Cerf wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> actually ISI tracked TCP/IP capability during 1982; the primary
>>>>>>> regular use was from Europe, especially the UK, prior to january
>>>>>>> 1983;
>>>>>>> by then there LANS connecting to the ARPANET by way of gateways
>>>>>>> (Proteon was around with its rings - Noel Chiappa is that correct?).
>>>>>>> Then came Cisco but i guess after 1984.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course during 1982 many ARPANET sites came up on TCP/IP in
>>>>>>> parallel
>>>>>>> with NCP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> v
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Miles Fidelman
>>>>>>> <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob Hinden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I still have my "I Survived the TCP Transition 1/1/83" red button.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In my view this was the time when the Internet became operational
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> people starting using it for their day to day work, instead of a
>>>>>>>>> set of
>>>>>>>>> researchers. Conception and birth occurred earlier :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually, that raises another interesting question: At what point,
>>>>>>>> prior
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> 1/1/83, if any, was there a minimal set of networks, gateways, and
>>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>>> systems that were passing IP packets on an ongoing basis - as
>>>>>>>> opposed to
>>>>>>>> being cobbled together to run some experiment or other, and then
>>>>>>>> brought
>>>>>>>> back down? Can we isolate a date when IP packets started flowing and
>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>> stopped?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Miles
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>>>>>>>> In<fnord>  practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>