[ih] Some Questions over IPv4 Ownership

Mon Oct 11 17:14:49 PDT 2010

Craig has it pretty close to right.  And before that, it was even 
more informal.

But let me just say that this whole idea of "owning network 
addresses" is ludicrous. Clearly a misconception by people who have 
no clue.

Do you own the address where your house is?  When you move do you 
take it with you?  Do you get your mail at the address where you were 
born?  (the analog for the so-called MAC "address").

Network addresses are no different.  And if you think they are, then 
you need to think it about it more carefully.

At 18:41 -0400 2010/10/11, Craig Partridge wrote:
>  > 1.  Who 'owned' IP addresses ab initio?  Were IP addresses 'property' of =
>>  any one entity or person or agency?  What is the authority ICANN /  IANA =
>>  had to allocate these addresses if they are not 'theirs.'
>
>Back when I got started in 1983, you requested an IP address from the
>DDN NIC.  You filled out a form explaining how big a network you were
>creating and they gave you a class A, B, or C address (this is pre-CIDR).
>As I recall, you were already warned at that time that getting a class A
>(/8 in today's parlance) was very hard.  But getting a class B (/16) was
>trivial.
>
>>  2.  Initially, were large blocks of IPv4 addresses 'handed out' with a =
>>  complete ownership interest to their recipients?  For example, when you =
>>  received an /16, was it yours to transfer to	     	other entities =
>>  if you pleased?  Could you have transferred sub-allocations of your /16 =
>>  to other entities who weren't your customers/connectors?
>
>The concept of "ownership" never came up during the early 1980s.  You were
>the "contact" for your IP networks.  And yes, if I was a contact for a
>network, I could drop an email to the NIC and tell them to make someone
>else the contact.  So I had some trappings of ownership -- but frankly it
>didn't feel that way.
>
>At one point I had three class C addresses (what are now called /24s)
>for testing routing protocols.  After a few years I sent a note to
>the NIC saying I no longer needed them and they went back into the address
>pool.
>
>>  3.  Were the initial IPv4 allocations rolled into RIRs/ICANN at any =
>>  point? If so, under what legal framework?
>
>As I recall and others on this list were much closer to the process,
>when ICANN got created, those who already had IP address blocks kept those
>addresses outside the system -- squatters rights if you will.  And ICANN
>and the RIRs spent some time trying persuade folks who already "possessed"
>parts of the address space to please join within the agreements, with
>limited success.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Craig
>
>>
>>  Thanks all for your thoughts/comments,
>>
>>  Ernesto M. Rubi
>>  Sr. Network Engineer
>>  AMPATH/CIARA
>>  Florida International Univ, Miami
>>  Reply-to: ernesto at cs.fiu.edu
>>
>>
>>  --Apple-Mail-1--714100781
>>  Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>  Content-Type: text/html;
>>	charset=us-ascii
>>
>>  <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
>>  -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span =
>>  class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">Hi =
>>  folks,</span><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br></div><div =
>>  style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">I am in the process of writing a research =
>>  paper for an Internet Law seminar at FIU Law and have a few questions =
>>  for those of you with enough institutional memory to remember how IPv4 =
>>  address allocations were first handed out:</div><div style=3D"font-size: =
>>  12px; "><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">1.  Who 'owned' =
>>  IP addresses ab initio?  Were IP addresses 'property' of any one =
>>  entity or person or agency?  What is the authority ICANN / =
>>   IANA had to allocate these addresses if they are not =
>>  'theirs.'</div><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br></div><div =
>>  style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">2.  Initially, were large blocks of =
>>  IPv4 addresses 'handed out' with a complete ownership interest to their =
>  > recipients?  For example, when you received an /16, was it yours to =
>>  transfer to <span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
>>  pre; ">	</span>      <span class=3D"Apple-tab-span"
>>   =
>>  style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>other entities if you pleased? =
>>   Could you have transferred sub-allocations of your /16 to other =
>>  entities who weren't your customers/connectors?</div><div =
>>  style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
>>  ">3.  Were the initial IPv4 allocations rolled into RIRs/ICANN at =
>>  any point? If so, under what legal framework?</div><div =
>>  style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
>>  ">Thanks all for your thoughts/comments,</div><div style=3D"font-size: =
>>  12px; "><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><div><span =
>>  class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
>>  rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
>>  normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
>>  normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
>>  text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
>>  -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
>>  0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
>>  auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
>>  style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
>>  Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
>>  font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
>>  orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
>>  widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
>>  -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
>>  -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
>>  auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
>>  break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
>>  after-white-space; "><div><div>Ernesto M. Rubi</div><div>Sr. Network =
>>  Engineer</div><div>AMPATH/CIARA</div><div>Florida International Univ, =
>>  Miami</div><div>Reply-to: <a =
>>  href=3D"mailto:ernesto at cs.fiu.edu">ernesto at cs.fiu.edu</a></div></div><div>=
>>  <br></div></div></span></span></div></div></body></html>=
>>
>>  --Apple-Mail-1--714100781--
>********************
>Craig Partridge
>Chief Scientist, BBN Technologies
>E-mail: craig at aland.bbn.com or craig at bbn.com
>Phone: +1 517 324 3425