[ih] Some Questions over IPv4 Ownership

Mon Oct 11 16:58:39 PDT 2010

  On 10/11/2010 5:41 PM, Craig Partridge wrote:
>> 1.  Who 'owned' IP addresses ab initio?  Were IP addresses 'property' of =
>> any one entity or person or agency?  What is the authority ICANN /  IANA =
>> had to allocate these addresses if they are not 'theirs.'
> Back when I got started in 1983, you requested an IP address from the
> DDN NIC.  You filled out a form explaining how big a network you were
> creating and they gave you a class A, B, or C address (this is pre-CIDR).
> As I recall, you were already warned at that time that getting a class A
> (/8 in today's parlance) was very hard.  But getting a class B (/16) was
> trivial.
>
>> 2.  Initially, were large blocks of IPv4 addresses 'handed out' with a =
>> complete ownership interest to their recipients?  For example, when you =
>> received an /16, was it yours to transfer to 	      	other entities =
>> if you pleased?  Could you have transferred sub-allocations of your /16 =
>> to other entities who weren't your customers/connectors?
> The concept of "ownership" never came up during the early 1980s.  You were
> the "contact" for your IP networks.  And yes, if I was a contact for a
> network, I could drop an email to the NIC and tell them to make someone
> else the contact.  So I had some trappings of ownership -- but frankly it
> didn't feel that way.
>
> At one point I had three class C addresses (what are now called /24s)
> for testing routing protocols.  After a few years I sent a note to
> the NIC saying I no longer needed them and they went back into the address
> pool.
>
>> 3.  Were the initial IPv4 allocations rolled into RIRs/ICANN at any =
>> point? If so, under what legal framework?
> As I recall and others on this list were much closer to the process,
> when ICANN got created, those who already had IP address blocks kept those
> addresses outside the system -- squatters rights if you will.  And ICANN
> and the RIRs spent some time trying persuade folks who already "possessed"
> parts of the address space to please join within the agreements, with
> limited success.

My recollections as an obscure administrator at an obscure university, 
are that we owned our IP addresses, but that there was no market for them.

> Thanks!
>
> Craig
>
>> Thanks all for your thoughts/comments,
>>
>> Ernesto M. Rubi
>> Sr. Network Engineer
>> AMPATH/CIARA
>> Florida International Univ, Miami
>> Reply-to: ernesto at cs.fiu.edu
>>
>>
>> --Apple-Mail-1--714100781
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>> <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
>> -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span =
>> class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">Hi =
>> folks,</span><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br></div><div =
>> style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">I am in the process of writing a research =
>> paper for an Internet Law seminar at FIU Law and have a few questions =
>> for those of you with enough institutional memory to remember how IPv4 =
>> address allocations were first handed out:</div><div style=3D"font-size: =
>> 12px; "><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">1. Who 'owned' =
>> IP addresses ab initio? Were IP addresses 'property' of any one =
>> entity or person or agency? What is the authority ICANN / =
>>  IANA had to allocate these addresses if they are not =
>> 'theirs.'</div><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br></div><div =
>> style=3D"font-size: 12px; ">2. Initially, were large blocks of =
>> IPv4 addresses 'handed out' with a complete ownership interest to their =
>> recipients? For example, when you received an /16, was it yours to =
>> transfer to <span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: =
>> pre; ">	</span>    <span class=3D"Apple-tab-span"
>>   =
>> style=3D"white-space: pre; ">	</span>other entities if you pleased? =
>>  Could you have transferred sub-allocations of your /16 to other =
>> entities who weren't your customers/connectors?</div><div =
>> style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
>> ">3. Were the initial IPv4 allocations rolled into RIRs/ICANN at =
>> any point? If so, under what legal framework?</div><div =
>> style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
>> ">Thanks all for your thoughts/comments,</div><div style=3D"font-size: =
>> 12px; "><br></div><div style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><div><span =
>> class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
>> rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
>> normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
>> normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
>> text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
>> -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
>> 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
>> auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
>> style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
>> Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
>> font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
>> orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
>> widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
>> -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
>> -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
>> auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
>> break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
>> after-white-space; "><div><div>Ernesto M. Rubi</div><div>Sr. Network =
>> Engineer</div><div>AMPATH/CIARA</div><div>Florida International Univ, =
>> Miami</div><div>Reply-to: <a =
>> href=3D"mailto:ernesto at cs.fiu.edu">ernesto at cs.fiu.edu</a></div></div><div>=
>> <br></div></div></span></span></div></div></body></html>=
>>
>> --Apple-Mail-1--714100781--
> ********************
> Craig Partridge
> Chief Scientist, BBN Technologies
> E-mail: craig at aland.bbn.com or craig at bbn.com
> Phone: +1 517 324 3425
>