[ih] principles of the internet

[John Day]

At 11:28 -0700 2010/06/01, Dave Crocker wrote:
>On 6/1/2010 11:10 AM, John Day wrote:
>>    I am not ready to
>>concede that what we have seen so far is representative of the space.
>
>I'm pretty sure that nearly 40 years and some billions of users 
>qualifies as 'representative'.  Far from ideal and certainly with 
>plenty of terrain yet to be covered, but still solidly qualifying 
>for a number of definitions of representative...

This is a common mistake.  Billions of users doing the same thing is 
not an exploration of the problem space any more than lots of 
implementations in daily use is stress testing.

>
>>However, it is true that for data transfer protocols all properly
>>designed ones are both symmetrical and soft state. Of course, it is
>>always possible to botch the job and violate that rule.
>>
>>>
>>>>It is the case that once an asymmetrical protocol is introduced into an
>>>>architecture, it makes very difficult to build anything on top of it.
>>>
>>>like HTTP?
>
>My point was there there is an enormous range of value-add 
>functionality built on top of HTTP, which much of the world views as 
>a transport protocol.

Transport protocols are characterized by feedback mechanisms 
requiring synchronization.  I was very careful to distinguish the 
application protocol from the application.  The fact that much of the 
world views it as a Transport protocol merely indicates the failure 
of education.

It remains that building another protocol on top of an asymmetric 
protocol has always proved cumbersome.

>
>
>>>I assume that the goal of this exercise requires ignoring the rather
>>>remarkable complexity that has crept into much of the recent work in
>>>the IETF?
>>
>>Actually, I was referring to the choice of SNMP [sic] over HEMS.
>
>Then you will be amused to spend time wandering around many of the 
>more recent exercises.  You'll probably most enjoy anything from the 
>RAI area, but possibly also mobility and...

Well, the mobility stuff is laboring under the weight of trying to do 
something with half an architecture.  Not surprising it is such a 
mess.

Take care,
John

>
>d/
>--
>
>   Dave Crocker
>   Brandenburg InternetWorking
>   bbiw.net