[ih] capacity v bandwidth
vinton cerf
vgcerf at gmail.com
Tue Jun 2 02:41:39 PDT 2026
I think of menehune as a wireless LAN, so it's more an access point than a
gateway.
On Mon, Jun 1, 2026, 23:42 the keyboard of geoff goodfellow <
geoff at iconia.com> wrote:
> would the very first "gateway" perhaps be the Menehune application level
> "gateway" between the ALOHANET that "became operational in June 1971,
> providing the first public demonstration of a wireless packet data network"
> connected to the ARPANET?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALOHAnet
>
> yours truly spent some summer "vacations" in Hawaii in the '70s and was
> given use of an ALOHANET ICU to connect to a TI Silent 700 Thermal print
> out terminal yours truly lugged over there and fondly recalls using the
> HAWAII-ALOHA Menehune "gateway" to telnet connect back to SRI. sadly yours
> truly no longer has the photo's of all that.. :(
>
> g
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 8:25 PM vinton cerf via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> thanks Brian - Judy Estrin used the term "brouter" for products from
>> Bridge
>> Communications.
>>
>> v
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 10:42 PM Brian E Carpenter <
>> brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Vint, I'm sure you're correct, but again quoting the same 1988 DDN
>> > document:
>> >
>> > "3.8.2. cisco Systems Gateways -
>> > PRODUCT-OR-PACKAGE-NAME: cisco Multi-Protocol Gateway Servers
>> > DESCRIPTION:
>> > The cisco family of gateways are multi-protocol routers linking networks
>> > of heterogeneous hosts and -
>> > media. All Gateway Servers are fully compliant with RFC 1009,
>> > "Requirements for Internet Gateways"."
>> >
>> > so clearly even Cisco was using both words.
>> >
>> > RFC 1009 (June 1987) uses "gateway" 154 times and "router" 16 times.
>> > It explicitly defines the terms about 180 degrees differently than Noel:
>> >
>> > " Router A router is a switch that receives data transmission
>> > units from input interfaces and, depending on the
>> > addresses in those units, routes them to the
>> > appropriate output interfaces. There can be routers
>> > at different levels of protocol. For example,
>> > Interface Message Processors (IMPs) are packet-level
>> > routers.
>> >
>> > Gateway In the Internet documentation generally, and in this
>> > document specifically, a gateway is an IP-level
>> > router. In the Internet community the term has a
>> long
>> > history of this usage [32]."
>> >
>> > Regards/Ngā mihi
>> > Brian
>> > On 02-Jun-26 13:32, vinton cerf wrote:
>> > > I had always thought that cisco introduced the term 'router" in 1984.
>> > >
>> > > v
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 8:52 PM Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history
>> <
>> > internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:
>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org>>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > This is slightly complicated by the IGP/EGP terminology. That
>> > persisted even when
>> > > "router" became commonplace. I think we can date it to between
>> June
>> > 1988
>> > > and June 1989:
>> > >
>> > > RFC1058 (RIP, June 1988) uses "gateway" exclusively
>> > >
>> > > RFC1105 (the first version of BGP, June 1989) uses "router"
>> > exclusively,
>> > > except in the name of the protocol!
>> > >
>> > > Wikipedia says that the p4200 came out in 1986. I couldn't find a
>> > manual,
>> > > but its product name was in a May 1988 DoD report:
>> > >
>> > > "Proteon p4200 Gateway
>> > > ...
>> > > The p4200 gateway is a multiprotocol router, supporting (among
>> other
>> > protocols) TCP/IP."
>> > >
>> > > [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA192186.pdf <
>> > https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA192186.pdf>]
>> > >
>> > > Also see: RFC1208 "A Glossary of Networking Terms" (March 1991)
>> > >
>> > > Regards/Ngā mihi
>> > > Brian
>> > >
>> > > On 02-Jun-26 11:48, Noel Chiappa via Internet-history wrote:
>> > > > > From: Jack Haverty
>> > > >
>> > > > > In the early Internet, the boxes interconnecting
>> networks
>> > were called
>> > > > > "gateways". Today they're called "routers". But why the
>> > change...?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So we started callig them "routers". Other companies
>> > (cisco, proteon,
>> > > > > ...) probably had similar experiences in their sales
>> > activities.
>> > > >
>> > > > If my memory isn't failing me (it well might be), I can take
>> part
>> > of the
>> > > > blame.
>> > > >
>> > > > I do remember that I was pissed off because everyone and their
>> > brother
>> > > > (across the industry generally) called any box that did digital
>> > > > communications between two things a 'gateway'. E.g. a box that
>> > did email
>> > > > forwarding from BITNET to the Internet was called a 'gateway'.
>> > I.e. 'gateway'
>> > > > was useless as a technical term, because it covered an
>> impossibly
>> > wide range
>> > > > of functionalities.
>> > > >
>> > > > (I am not sure if the p4200, the first Proteon router product,
>> > > > post-dated the 'gateway' -> 'router' change; I'd have to try
>> and
>> > find an
>> > > > original manual. If it pre-dated, I may have taken Proteon
>> > experience into
>> > > > account too.)
>> > > >
>> > > > So I campaigned (I think it was me) in the IETF community to
>> come
>> > up with a
>> > > > term limited to internetwork-level datagra packet switches, and
>> > 'router' was
>> > > > picked.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't know if that change post-dated the creation of the IETF
>> > or not. I
>> > > > remember such large-scale questions (i.e. not within the
>> purview
>> > of a WG,
>> > > > after Phill set up the WG structure) were often discussed on
>> the
>> > main IETF
>> > > > mailing list, so if we still have the email archive from the
>> > start of that
>> > > > list, someone can dig into it.
>> > > >
>> > > > I remember that before the IETF existed, there was an email
>> list
>> > (I think
>> > > > hosted at CNRI maybe, although CNRI didn't exist until 1986 -
>> > Jon's minutes
>> > > > of TCP/IP meetings stop at the end of 1980) where a lot of
>> early
>> > TCP
>> > > > internetworking discussions ('TCP internetworking' since there
>> > must have been
>> > > > PUP internetworking discussions, too, inside Xerox) happened.
>> > Does anyone
>> > > > remember what it was called?
>> > > >
>> > > > Any technical history of the creation of TCP internetting would
>> > _really_
>> > > > benefit from having access to that email archive (if it still
>> > exists
>> > > > somewhere; if not, maybe it would be possible to re-create it
>> by
>> > picking
>> > > > through preserved emailboxes; or perhaps someone who printed
>> out
>> > all their
>> > > > email still has those printouts).
>> > > >
>> > > > I feel sadly wary that a lot of our earliest history has been
>> > lost (since we
>> > > > didn't use physical memos, which many technical histories
>> depend
>> > on for 'nuts
>> > > > and bolts' primary sources) - except for the copy stored in
>> > 'meat' CPUs (who
>> > > > will soon start dying off - historians take note, and act now,
>> > while you can).
>> > > >
>> > > > Noel
>> > > --
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>> > > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:
>> > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
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>
> --
> Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com
> living as The Truth is True
>
>
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