[ih] capacity v bandwidth
the keyboard of geoff goodfellow
geoff at iconia.com
Mon Jun 1 20:41:22 PDT 2026
would the very first "gateway" perhaps be the Menehune application level
"gateway" between the ALOHANET that "became operational in June 1971,
providing the first public demonstration of a wireless packet data network"
connected to the ARPANET?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALOHAnet
yours truly spent some summer "vacations" in Hawaii in the '70s and was
given use of an ALOHANET ICU to connect to a TI Silent 700 Thermal print
out terminal yours truly lugged over there and fondly recalls using the
HAWAII-ALOHA Menehune "gateway" to telnet connect back to SRI. sadly yours
truly no longer has the photo's of all that.. :(
g
On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 8:25 PM vinton cerf via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> thanks Brian - Judy Estrin used the term "brouter" for products from Bridge
> Communications.
>
> v
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 10:42 PM Brian E Carpenter <
> brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Vint, I'm sure you're correct, but again quoting the same 1988 DDN
> > document:
> >
> > "3.8.2. cisco Systems Gateways -
> > PRODUCT-OR-PACKAGE-NAME: cisco Multi-Protocol Gateway Servers
> > DESCRIPTION:
> > The cisco family of gateways are multi-protocol routers linking networks
> > of heterogeneous hosts and -
> > media. All Gateway Servers are fully compliant with RFC 1009,
> > "Requirements for Internet Gateways"."
> >
> > so clearly even Cisco was using both words.
> >
> > RFC 1009 (June 1987) uses "gateway" 154 times and "router" 16 times.
> > It explicitly defines the terms about 180 degrees differently than Noel:
> >
> > " Router A router is a switch that receives data transmission
> > units from input interfaces and, depending on the
> > addresses in those units, routes them to the
> > appropriate output interfaces. There can be routers
> > at different levels of protocol. For example,
> > Interface Message Processors (IMPs) are packet-level
> > routers.
> >
> > Gateway In the Internet documentation generally, and in this
> > document specifically, a gateway is an IP-level
> > router. In the Internet community the term has a long
> > history of this usage [32]."
> >
> > Regards/Ngā mihi
> > Brian
> > On 02-Jun-26 13:32, vinton cerf wrote:
> > > I had always thought that cisco introduced the term 'router" in 1984.
> > >
> > > v
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 8:52 PM Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <
> > internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org>>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > This is slightly complicated by the IGP/EGP terminology. That
> > persisted even when
> > > "router" became commonplace. I think we can date it to between June
> > 1988
> > > and June 1989:
> > >
> > > RFC1058 (RIP, June 1988) uses "gateway" exclusively
> > >
> > > RFC1105 (the first version of BGP, June 1989) uses "router"
> > exclusively,
> > > except in the name of the protocol!
> > >
> > > Wikipedia says that the p4200 came out in 1986. I couldn't find a
> > manual,
> > > but its product name was in a May 1988 DoD report:
> > >
> > > "Proteon p4200 Gateway
> > > ...
> > > The p4200 gateway is a multiprotocol router, supporting (among
> other
> > protocols) TCP/IP."
> > >
> > > [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA192186.pdf <
> > https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA192186.pdf>]
> > >
> > > Also see: RFC1208 "A Glossary of Networking Terms" (March 1991)
> > >
> > > Regards/Ngā mihi
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > On 02-Jun-26 11:48, Noel Chiappa via Internet-history wrote:
> > > > > From: Jack Haverty
> > > >
> > > > > In the early Internet, the boxes interconnecting networks
> > were called
> > > > > "gateways". Today they're called "routers". But why the
> > change...?
> > > > >
> > > > > So we started callig them "routers". Other companies
> > (cisco, proteon,
> > > > > ...) probably had similar experiences in their sales
> > activities.
> > > >
> > > > If my memory isn't failing me (it well might be), I can take
> part
> > of the
> > > > blame.
> > > >
> > > > I do remember that I was pissed off because everyone and their
> > brother
> > > > (across the industry generally) called any box that did digital
> > > > communications between two things a 'gateway'. E.g. a box that
> > did email
> > > > forwarding from BITNET to the Internet was called a 'gateway'.
> > I.e. 'gateway'
> > > > was useless as a technical term, because it covered an
> impossibly
> > wide range
> > > > of functionalities.
> > > >
> > > > (I am not sure if the p4200, the first Proteon router product,
> > > > post-dated the 'gateway' -> 'router' change; I'd have to try and
> > find an
> > > > original manual. If it pre-dated, I may have taken Proteon
> > experience into
> > > > account too.)
> > > >
> > > > So I campaigned (I think it was me) in the IETF community to
> come
> > up with a
> > > > term limited to internetwork-level datagra packet switches, and
> > 'router' was
> > > > picked.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don't know if that change post-dated the creation of the IETF
> > or not. I
> > > > remember such large-scale questions (i.e. not within the purview
> > of a WG,
> > > > after Phill set up the WG structure) were often discussed on the
> > main IETF
> > > > mailing list, so if we still have the email archive from the
> > start of that
> > > > list, someone can dig into it.
> > > >
> > > > I remember that before the IETF existed, there was an email list
> > (I think
> > > > hosted at CNRI maybe, although CNRI didn't exist until 1986 -
> > Jon's minutes
> > > > of TCP/IP meetings stop at the end of 1980) where a lot of early
> > TCP
> > > > internetworking discussions ('TCP internetworking' since there
> > must have been
> > > > PUP internetworking discussions, too, inside Xerox) happened.
> > Does anyone
> > > > remember what it was called?
> > > >
> > > > Any technical history of the creation of TCP internetting would
> > _really_
> > > > benefit from having access to that email archive (if it still
> > exists
> > > > somewhere; if not, maybe it would be possible to re-create it by
> > picking
> > > > through preserved emailboxes; or perhaps someone who printed out
> > all their
> > > > email still has those printouts).
> > > >
> > > > I feel sadly wary that a lot of our earliest history has been
> > lost (since we
> > > > didn't use physical memos, which many technical histories depend
> > on for 'nuts
> > > > and bolts' primary sources) - except for the copy stored in
> > 'meat' CPUs (who
> > > > will soon start dying off - historians take note, and act now,
> > while you can).
> > > >
> > > > Noel
> > > --
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> > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
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--
Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com
living as The Truth is True
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