[ih] "The Great Debate"

[John Day]

I don’t see why you should avoid his name or any others. I think getting the facts out is what this list is all about.

Why did you think that I objected to the mention of his name?  It was an opportunity to set the record straight on ISODE.

We could go on to discuss how Marshall and the Gang of Four botched SNMP as well. For me, Marshall’s record in the IETF is not all that stellar.

Take care,
John

> On Apr 26, 2026, at 10:22, Carl Malamud <carl at media.org> wrote:
> 
> John -
> 
> I was simply asking if anybody had an audiocassette tape I could digitize as part of my research for a new book I'm working on. I didn't realize that the mere mention of Marshall was a violation of the terms of use of this list. Are there other names I should avoid mentioning, some kind of a Internet History Voldermort Enumeration I should be made aware of before I commit further infractions?
> 
> Carl
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2026 at 7:04 AM John Day <jeanjour at comcast.net <mailto:jeanjour at comcast.net>> wrote:
>> I always considered Marshall’s ISODE implementation as a classical example of of how not to implement OSI. It was so bad, I always considered it more an attempt to trash OSI than promote it. We had implementations orders of magnitude smaller and faster.
>> 
>> Yes there was a lot of crap in in the standards forced on it by the Europeans and their PTTs. It was important to know what to ignore. But then that was not Marshall’s intent.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 26, 2026, at 09:34, Dave Crocker <dhc at dcrocker.net <mailto:dhc at dcrocker.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 4/26/2026 6:15 AM, John Day via Internet-history wrote:
>>>> That must have been an interesting debate considering neither one of them was participating in OSI or had any idea what was going on.
>>> 
>>> The OSI world had a basic difficulty gaining operational experience, the way the Internet community did.  Marshall's ISODE package did more for helping OSI applications to get field experience than anything that came from within the OSI community.
>>> 
>>> en.wikipedia.org <http://en.wikipedia.org/>
>>> ISO Development Environment - Wikipedia <>
>>> 
>>> 🔗 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_Development_Environment <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_Development_Environment> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If remember correctly, this event was the one that Marshall presented first and when it was Paul's turn, he said he'd just use Marshall's slides.  Marshall said that as soon as Paul said that, he knew Paul would trounce him...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> d/
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Dave Crocker
>>> 
>>> dhc at dcrocker.net <mailto:dhc at dcrocker.net>
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>>> mast: @dcrocker at mastodon.social
>>> +1.408.329.0791
>>> 
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