[ih] Cisco origins (Was: when did APRANET -TIPs become known as -TACs)

[Guy Almes]

Karl,
   Very interesting.
   The "transfer of technology" was (to be charitable) shockingly 
informal.  The story of the disputes (I think in 1987) are eyebrow-raising.
   But, from an Internet History point of view, one problem with the 
disputes is that it created a kind of "off limits" cloud that has 
limited our understanding of the technical contributions of that era.

   Frankly, I would love to know more about the pre-cisco Stanford 
University Network technology developments.
   The hardware design built around the Motorola 68000 / Multibus that 
gave us the original SUN (and cisco) routers and also the original SUN 
workstation are clearly of interest.
   Similarly, the leadership of Stanford in understanding that they 
needed both workstations and the networking to connect them was 
historically important *if only* to allow us to understand the pre- and 
early history of SUN Microsystems and Cisco, two companies that 
contributed heavily to the emergence of the modern Internet.

   In addition, many at Stanford were clearly aware of the work at Xerox 
PARC, including its workstation and networking innovations.
   I *think* that, at least for a period of time, PARC's PUP protocols 
were supported in Cisco's multiprotocol routers.  Is this true?  If so, 
was this PUP support also present in the SUN routers?

   It would be interesting to understand and recognize the contributions 
of the SUN and early cisco people, totally apart from disputes about 
"the other IP".
	-- Guy

On 9/29/25 4:20 PM, Karl Auerbach wrote:
> When I was at Cisco there was a topic which seemed to be off limits -
> the legal disputes between Stanford and Cisco over the transfer of
> technology from Stanford to Cisco during those formative stages.  We
> were kinda nudged to not ask Kirk L. about these things.
> 
> I never knew the details of these disputes, other than I got the
> impression that they were kinda ugly.
> 
> My wife worked with Andy Bechtelsheim (sp) a few years later at SUN and
> I got the impression that he has lots of interesting tale about the
> formative periods of Sun and Cisco.
> 
> Getting back to Cisco:
> 
> When Geoff Baehr, Dave Kaufman, Frank Heinrich, and I were putting
> together the TRW response to the ULANA procurement from the Air Force
> Dave K. spent time with the Cisco folks.  David described Cisco as
> working out of a garage (but he could have meant rather sparse rented
> space that kinda had all the [dis-]comforts of a garage.)
> 
>               --karl--
>