[ih] A comment on the seven layer model

[the keyboard of geoff goodfellow]

indeed, but let's also not forget The HAL 9000 in Kubrick's
"2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)"
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062622/
for whom yours truly has been hoping that Apple's AI SIRI
or Elon's evolving Grok will "implement" the personality of
along with the voice of the late Douglas Rain... :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Rain

wouldn't that be "something"?

but then again what with the 2 different AI's having recently
developed their own language to better communicate amongst
themselves like Colossus & Guardian did in The Forbin Project a
future AI will just do that all on its own or directly up user request...

g


On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 4:52 PM Jack Haverty <jack at 3kitty.org> wrote:

> Yes, could be.  Lick's intergalactic paper was distributed in 1963 or so,
> so it might have influenced a 1970 movie.  Such sci-fi, in movies but
> especially books, provided inspirations for the hackers building computer
> stuff.  We all read scifi.  The "matrix" network in Neuromancer (1984ish)
> was especially relevant for the ARPANET and Internet.
>
> Star Trek - the original TV series in the 60s - was another source of
> ideas.  Sometimes we could see some tech in Star Trek and think "maybe we
> could actually build that".  Laser weapons are one example just recently
> becoming reality.   AI is another, where the computer understands spoken
> English (as well as Klingon et al of course).
>
> Curiously, even in the far future of Star Trek, computers weren't all
> powerful.  Some tasks took a while.  But the computer would work at it
> while the humans did something else -- just like Lick's vision.
>
> Jack
>
> On 4/22/25 15:26, the keyboard of geoff goodfellow wrote:
>
> OH MY, vis-a-vis:
>
> "Lick's vision was much more that the computers would all be mostly
> talking to each other.   I found it interesting to read recently that
> someone connected two AIs to each other, and they developed their own
> language to better communicate amongst themselves."
>
> that's a scene right out of "Colossus: The Forbin Project (1970)"
> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064177/
> (or maybe "Colossus: The Forbin Project (1970)" is right out of Lick's
> vision?)
>
> g
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 3:09 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> On 4/22/25 13:58, Steve Crocker wrote:
>> > Jack,
>> >
>> > I liked your comment, "I gave up long ago on trying to stuff this into
>> > a 7-layer diagram and explain it."
>> >
>> > I was part of the original group that designed the first set of host
>> > level protocols for the Arpanet.  From the beginning we thought in
>> > terms of thin layers that provided useful services, with the proviso
>> > that others would build on, ignore and build around, or insert other
>> > layers in between as needed
>> >
>> > I turned my attention away from protocol design when I moved to
>> > (D)ARPA in 1971 and focused on AI and other topics. When I re-engaged
>> > with the network architecture and discovered OSI had determined there
>> > were exactly seven layers, I nearly fell over laughing.
>> >
>> > The seven layer model has been useful, but it is not complete or
>> > definitive.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>>
>> My first encounter with Networking was when I became one of Lick's
>> thesis students, and got thoroughly indoctrinated into his
>> "Intergalactic Network" vision.   Later he was my boss as we worked to
>> implement some of his vision with not enough computer or networking
>> power.   Computers would be somehow connected through networks, every
>> user would have their own "personal computer", and those computers would
>> interact to help humans do whatever humans do, only occasionally
>> actually interacting with the human through some kind of UI.
>>
>> That picture doesn't fit into the 7-layer model, which was derived from
>> the world of telephony and "calls".  It only addressed what was
>> happening during the times when the human was interacting with some
>> single computer to use some program.  The notions of Presentation or
>> Session is a clue to its intermittent and human-centric nature.  I think
>> the 7-layer model actually slowed down progress towards the new way of
>> Lick's vision.  Maybe still does.   Not just incomplete, but also
>> obstructionist.
>>
>> Lick's vision was much more that the computers would all be mostly
>> talking to each other.   I found it interesting to read recently that
>> someone connected two AIs to each other, and they developed their own
>> language to better communicate amongst themselves.
>>
>> I think Lick would like today's Internet, which seems to me pretty close
>> to his vision, but he'd also see the problems that still need to be
>> addressed.
>>
>> Jack
>> --
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>>
>
>
> --
> Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com
> living as The Truth is True
>
>
>

-- 
Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com
living as The Truth is True