[ih] A comment on the seven layer model

[the keyboard of geoff goodfellow]

OH MY, vis-a-vis:

"Lick's vision was much more that the computers would all be mostly
talking to each other.   I found it interesting to read recently that
someone connected two AIs to each other, and they developed their own
language to better communicate amongst themselves."

that's a scene right out of "Colossus: The Forbin Project (1970)"
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064177/
(or maybe "Colossus: The Forbin Project (1970)" is right out of Lick's
vision?)

g

On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 3:09 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> On 4/22/25 13:58, Steve Crocker wrote:
> > Jack,
> >
> > I liked your comment, "I gave up long ago on trying to stuff this into
> > a 7-layer diagram and explain it."
> >
> > I was part of the original group that designed the first set of host
> > level protocols for the Arpanet.  From the beginning we thought in
> > terms of thin layers that provided useful services, with the proviso
> > that others would build on, ignore and build around, or insert other
> > layers in between as needed
> >
> > I turned my attention away from protocol design when I moved to
> > (D)ARPA in 1971 and focused on AI and other topics. When I re-engaged
> > with the network architecture and discovered OSI had determined there
> > were exactly seven layers, I nearly fell over laughing.
> >
> > The seven layer model has been useful, but it is not complete or
> > definitive.
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
> My first encounter with Networking was when I became one of Lick's
> thesis students, and got thoroughly indoctrinated into his
> "Intergalactic Network" vision.   Later he was my boss as we worked to
> implement some of his vision with not enough computer or networking
> power.   Computers would be somehow connected through networks, every
> user would have their own "personal computer", and those computers would
> interact to help humans do whatever humans do, only occasionally
> actually interacting with the human through some kind of UI.
>
> That picture doesn't fit into the 7-layer model, which was derived from
> the world of telephony and "calls".  It only addressed what was
> happening during the times when the human was interacting with some
> single computer to use some program.  The notions of Presentation or
> Session is a clue to its intermittent and human-centric nature.  I think
> the 7-layer model actually slowed down progress towards the new way of
> Lick's vision.  Maybe still does.   Not just incomplete, but also
> obstructionist.
>
> Lick's vision was much more that the computers would all be mostly
> talking to each other.   I found it interesting to read recently that
> someone connected two AIs to each other, and they developed their own
> language to better communicate amongst themselves.
>
> I think Lick would like today's Internet, which seems to me pretty close
> to his vision, but he'd also see the problems that still need to be
> addressed.
>
> Jack
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>


-- 
Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com
living as The Truth is True