[ih] Gateway Issue: Certification (was Re: booting linux on a 4004)

[Brian E Carpenter]

Correction, it was *David* Rayner at NPL.

Regards
    Brian

On 04-Oct-24 09:52, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> In Europe it was a whole industry in itself. Just two examples(Google finds many):
> 
> https://shop.elsevier.com/books/osi-conformance-testing-methodology-and-ttcn/baumgarten/978-0-444-89712-1
> 
> https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/BFb0026973
> 
> Derek Rayner at NPL was the high priest; the OSI promoters in Brussels were worshippers.
> 
> Regards
>      Brian
> On 04-Oct-24 09:30, John Day via Internet-history wrote:
>> Ahh, yes, one of Chris Vissers students.  Vissers developed a Temporal Ordering approach to Formal Description. It was interesting in that it said a minimal amount about the implementation (leaving greater leeway to the implementor, which seemed important then) but I never found anyone who could design in it.  From the URL, this appears to come from Gregor Bochmann’s course who worked on a formal description for CCITT.  I forget now what it was but SDL had some feature that they insisted on that made the description ambiguous. Typical ITU.
>>
>> As I said, there was a lot of push by the traditionalists for it, but certainly there was nothing in ISO to actually do it. I don’t know if Europe did but as I said the only group in the US was the DoD group in AZ and they were very plodding.
>>
>> Take care,
>> John
>>
>>> On Oct 3, 2024, at 16:15, Scott O. Bradner via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> relevant to the question of OSI testing
>>>
>>> An Overview of OSI Conformance Testing
>>> https://www.site.uottawa.ca/~bochmann/CSI5174/CourseNotes/Literature/Tretmans%20-%20Overview%20of%20OSI%20conformance%20testing%20-%20iso9646.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Oct 3, 2024, at 4:06 PM, John Day via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No, never has on anything I know of.
>>>>
>>>> The only certification done on OSI was done by the DoD at some place in Arizona and it was a complete fiasco.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 3, 2024, at 15:43, Vint Cerf <vint at google.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ISO?
>>>>> v
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 3:42 PM John Day via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>>>>>> Just out of curiosity, what other standards organizations do compliance testing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 3, 2024, at 13:54, Dave Crocker via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/3/2024 10:43 AM, Jack Haverty via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>>>>> It's curious to me that such mechanisms have not been created for the Internet Industry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Informal interoperability testing, versus formal compliance testing, was and remains a key distinction between the Internet's culture and the cultures of various other standards organization. Compliance testing is typically expensive and incomplete.  (As a tool for initial code debugging, tests like that can be efficient; as a guarantee of field interoperability, not so much.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There was a wonderful panel that Vint was on, circa 1990, along with a number of other folk, including a vigorous OSI proponent from Boeing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vint made his comments about experiences with the Internet's technology and specifically noted the reliance on interoperability testing rather than (bench) compliance testing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Other panelists made various comments and then the Boeing person made theirs, vigorously asserting that it is not possible to get widespread interoperability without formal compliance testing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was fun to watch Vint slowly lean slightly forward and then slowly turn his head toward the Boeing person.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> d/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Dave Crocker
>>>>>>> Brandenburg InternetWorking
>>>>>>> bbiw.net <http://bbiw.net/>
>>>>>>> mast:@dcrocker at mastodon.social
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:Internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
>>>>>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:Internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
>>>>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
>>>>> Vint Cerf
>>>>> Google, LLC
>>>>> 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor
>>>>> Reston, VA 20190
>>>>> +1 (571) 213 1346
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> until further notice
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>