[ih] Gateway Issue: Certification (was Re: booting linux on a 4004)

[John Day]

Ahh, yes, one of Chris Vissers students.  Vissers developed a Temporal Ordering approach to Formal Description. It was interesting in that it said a minimal amount about the implementation (leaving greater leeway to the implementor, which seemed important then) but I never found anyone who could design in it.  From the URL, this appears to come from Gregor Bochmann’s course who worked on a formal description for CCITT.  I forget now what it was but SDL had some feature that they insisted on that made the description ambiguous. Typical ITU.

As I said, there was a lot of push by the traditionalists for it, but certainly there was nothing in ISO to actually do it. I don’t know if Europe did but as I said the only group in the US was the DoD group in AZ and they were very plodding.

Take care,
John

> On Oct 3, 2024, at 16:15, Scott O. Bradner via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> 
> relevant to the question of OSI testing
> 
> An Overview of OSI Conformance Testing
> https://www.site.uottawa.ca/~bochmann/CSI5174/CourseNotes/Literature/Tretmans%20-%20Overview%20of%20OSI%20conformance%20testing%20-%20iso9646.pdf
> 
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2024, at 4:06 PM, John Day via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>> 
>> No, never has on anything I know of. 
>> 
>> The only certification done on OSI was done by the DoD at some place in Arizona and it was a complete fiasco.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2024, at 15:43, Vint Cerf <vint at google.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ISO?
>>> v
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 3:42 PM John Day via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>>>> Just out of curiosity, what other standards organizations do compliance testing?
>>>> 
>>>> John
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 3, 2024, at 13:54, Dave Crocker via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/3/2024 10:43 AM, Jack Haverty via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>>> It's curious to me that such mechanisms have not been created for the Internet Industry.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Informal interoperability testing, versus formal compliance testing, was and remains a key distinction between the Internet's culture and the cultures of various other standards organization. Compliance testing is typically expensive and incomplete.  (As a tool for initial code debugging, tests like that can be efficient; as a guarantee of field interoperability, not so much.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> There was a wonderful panel that Vint was on, circa 1990, along with a number of other folk, including a vigorous OSI proponent from Boeing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Vint made his comments about experiences with the Internet's technology and specifically noted the reliance on interoperability testing rather than (bench) compliance testing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Other panelists made various comments and then the Boeing person made theirs, vigorously asserting that it is not possible to get widespread interoperability without formal compliance testing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It was fun to watch Vint slowly lean slightly forward and then slowly turn his head toward the Boeing person.
>>>>> 
>>>>> d/
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Dave Crocker
>>>>> Brandenburg InternetWorking
>>>>> bbiw.net <http://bbiw.net/>
>>>>> mast:@dcrocker at mastodon.social
>>>>> 
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>>> Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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