[ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth of the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in Athens, Greece]

[Vint Cerf]

don't you mean "disallowed commercial traffic" ?
v


On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 4:23 AM Patrik Fältström via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> It is a bit more complicated. When NorduNET was created (and the various
> local IP based networks in the Nordics, like SUNET) a few commercial
> companies were connected. When in September 1988 a fixed satellite
> connection was created between KTH and JvNC, an NSFNet agreement had to be
> signed, which disallowed non commercial traffic (I was not part of the
> actual discussion so others might have more details on this — I just took
> care of some of the technical bits). This triggered a discussion on
> creation of a commercial Internet provider in Sweden which the incumbent
> Telia refused to be part of. This in turn triggered Jan Stenbeck to (for
> the 2nd time) kick the behind of the incumbent (and Sweden), started
> SwipNet, later incorporated in Tele2, and the rest is history.
>
> I.e. there was some commercial IP on fixed lines before the connection to
> NSFNet was created.
>
> paf
>
> > 15 juni 2024 kl. 11:36 skrev Johan Helsingius via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org>:
> >
> > Daniele,
> >
> > I am well aware of the situation, the PTT monopolies and the "ITU
> > Regime" back in the day. That didn't stop us from running UUCP,
> > with email and netnews - but I agree, it wasn't IP and it wasn't
> > over leased lines.
> >
> >    Julf
> >
> >> On 14/06/2024 17:41, Daniele Bovio via Internet-history wrote:
> >> Julf,
> >> In 1984, when EARN was established, it was illegal in Europe to provide
> network services amongst different institutions/corporations within
> countries and across the borders because the PTTs had the monopoly of voice
> and data transport, so nobody could legally lease circuits amongst an
> heterogeneous number of sites and offer data transport services. As a
> matter of fact the EARN management was approached by the CEPT (the European
> cooperation structure of the PTTs) threatening to shut the operations down
> exactly for that reason. The EARN Board argued that  the purpose of the
> network was to allow scientists to communicate with each other, i.e. one
> homogeneous group: the Research and Academic Community, and eventually
> after a lot of arguing the CEPT allowed EARN to continue to operate.
> >> Regards
> >> Daniele Bovio
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Internet-history [mailto:internet-history-bounces at elists.isoc.org]
> On Behalf Of Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Internet-history
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 4:11 PM
> >> To: Johan Helsingius <julf at julf.com>; internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> >> Subject: Re: [ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth
> of the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in
> Athens, Greece]
> >> Thanks for sharing.
> >> In response to Julf's point --- wasn't it all academic to start with?
> >> In the early days, academia was leading in a few countries and
> EARN/NETNORTH/BITNET interfacing with local networks like JANET (where I
> "lived").
> >> The only alternative at the time was UUCP. (we're talking 1985-88)
> Kindest regards,
> >> Olivier
> >>> On 13/06/2024 14:23, Johan Helsingius via Internet-history wrote:
> >>> Yes, very interesting discussion, but very biased towards the academic
> >>> networks (understandable given the event and the panelists).
> >>>
> >>>     Julf
> >>>
> >>> On 13/06/2024 14:16, Frantisek Borsik via Internet-history wrote:
> >>>> It was share by RIPE on social media yesterday:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw
> >>>>
> >>>> All the best,
> >>>>
> >>>> Frank
> >>>>
> >>>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
> >>>>
> >>>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 <+421%20919%20416%20714>
> >>>>
> >>>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 <+420%20775%20230%20885>
> >>>>
> >>>> Skype: casioa5302ca
> >>>>
> >>>> frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
> >> --
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