[ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth of the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in Athens, Greece]

[Vint Cerf]

or possibly through an NSF sponsored IXP in Chicago? "star-something?"

v


On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 2:47 PM John Day via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> If I remember correctly, for quite sometime in the 90s, the cheapest and
> fastest route intra-European for all of them was through Northern Virginia.
>
> > On Jun 14, 2024, at 12:30, Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >
> > The situation in EU in the 1990+- time frame also impacted networking
> outside of academia.  At the time, I was involved in deploying and
> operating a private internet (a corporate "intranet") in 100+ countries.
> In one case, we had two offices in Europe that could literally (almost) see
> each other across a river.   But they were in two different countries.  Due
> to the PTT tariffs and constraints, it was far less expensive to lease a
> trans-atlantic circuit from each city to New York than it was to lease a
> circuit across that river between the two countries.
> >
> > So all of our IP traffic crossing that river travelled thousands of
> miles "across the pond" (Atlantic) to New York City and back.   CEPT may
> have made an exception to allow interconnections for academic networking,
> but that policy hadn't spread to the rest of us yet.   I don't know when
> those rules changed.
> >
> > Jack Haverty
> >
> > On 6/14/24 08:48, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
> >> that was quite a barrier to networking in the EU - thanks to EARN for
> >> making the case.
> >> v
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 11:42 AM Daniele Bovio via Internet-history <
> >> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Julf,
> >>> In 1984, when EARN was established, it was illegal in Europe to provide
> >>> network services amongst different institutions/corporations within
> >>> countries and across the borders because the PTTs had the monopoly of
> voice
> >>> and data transport, so nobody could legally lease circuits amongst an
> >>> heterogeneous number of sites and offer data transport services. As a
> >>> matter of fact the EARN management was approached by the CEPT (the
> European
> >>> cooperation structure of the PTTs) threatening to shut the operations
> down
> >>> exactly for that reason. The EARN Board argued that  the purpose of the
> >>> network was to allow scientists to communicate with each other, i.e.
> one
> >>> homogeneous group: the Research and Academic Community, and eventually
> >>> after a lot of arguing the CEPT allowed EARN to continue to operate.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> Daniele Bovio
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Internet-history [mailto:
> internet-history-bounces at elists.isoc.org]
> >>> On Behalf Of Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Internet-history
> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 4:11 PM
> >>> To: Johan Helsingius<julf at julf.com>;internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth
> of
> >>> the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in
> Athens,
> >>> Greece]
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for sharing.
> >>>
> >>> In response to Julf's point --- wasn't it all academic to start with?
> >>> In the early days, academia was leading in a few countries and
> >>> EARN/NETNORTH/BITNET interfacing with local networks like JANET (where
> I
> >>> "lived").
> >>> The only alternative at the time was UUCP. (we're talking 1985-88)
> Kindest
> >>> regards,
> >>>
> >>> Olivier
> >>>
> >>> On 13/06/2024 14:23, Johan Helsingius via Internet-history wrote:
> >>>> Yes, very interesting discussion, but very biased towards the academic
> >>>> networks (understandable given the event and the panelists).
> >>>>
> >>>>     Julf
> >>>>
> >>>> On 13/06/2024 14:16, Frantisek Borsik via Internet-history wrote:
> >>>>> It was share by RIPE on social media yesterday:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All the best,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Frank
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 <+421%20919%20416%20714>
> <+421%20919%20416%20714>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 <+420%20775%20230%20885>
> <+420%20775%20230%20885>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Skype: casioa5302ca
> >>>>>
> >>>>> frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
> >>> --
> >>> Internet-history mailing list
> >>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> >>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> >>>
> >>> --
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> >>>
> >>
> >
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