[ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth of the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in Athens, Greece]

[John Day]

If I remember correctly, for quite sometime in the 90s, the cheapest and fastest route intra-European for all of them was through Northern Virginia.

> On Jun 14, 2024, at 12:30, Jack Haverty via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> 
> The situation in EU in the 1990+- time frame also impacted networking outside of academia.  At the time, I was involved in deploying and operating a private internet (a corporate "intranet") in 100+ countries.  In one case, we had two offices in Europe that could literally (almost) see each other across a river.   But they were in two different countries.  Due to the PTT tariffs and constraints, it was far less expensive to lease a trans-atlantic circuit from each city to New York than it was to lease a circuit across that river between the two countries.
> 
> So all of our IP traffic crossing that river travelled thousands of miles "across the pond" (Atlantic) to New York City and back.   CEPT may have made an exception to allow interconnections for academic networking, but that policy hadn't spread to the rest of us yet.   I don't know when those rules changed.
> 
> Jack Haverty
> 
> On 6/14/24 08:48, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>> that was quite a barrier to networking in the EU - thanks to EARN for
>> making the case.
>> v
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 11:42 AM Daniele Bovio via Internet-history <
>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Julf,
>>> In 1984, when EARN was established, it was illegal in Europe to provide
>>> network services amongst different institutions/corporations within
>>> countries and across the borders because the PTTs had the monopoly of voice
>>> and data transport, so nobody could legally lease circuits amongst an
>>> heterogeneous number of sites and offer data transport services. As a
>>> matter of fact the EARN management was approached by the CEPT (the European
>>> cooperation structure of the PTTs) threatening to shut the operations down
>>> exactly for that reason. The EARN Board argued that  the purpose of the
>>> network was to allow scientists to communicate with each other, i.e. one
>>> homogeneous group: the Research and Academic Community, and eventually
>>> after a lot of arguing the CEPT allowed EARN to continue to operate.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> Daniele Bovio
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Internet-history [mailto:internet-history-bounces at elists.isoc.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Internet-history
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2024 4:11 PM
>>> To: Johan Helsingius<julf at julf.com>;internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>> Subject: Re: [ih] Where it All Started: Panel Discussion on the Birth of
>>> the European Internet [RIPE NCC - South East Europe 12 Meeting in Athens,
>>> Greece]
>>> 
>>> Thanks for sharing.
>>> 
>>> In response to Julf's point --- wasn't it all academic to start with?
>>> In the early days, academia was leading in a few countries and
>>> EARN/NETNORTH/BITNET interfacing with local networks like JANET (where I
>>> "lived").
>>> The only alternative at the time was UUCP. (we're talking 1985-88) Kindest
>>> regards,
>>> 
>>> Olivier
>>> 
>>> On 13/06/2024 14:23, Johan Helsingius via Internet-history wrote:
>>>> Yes, very interesting discussion, but very biased towards the academic
>>>> networks (understandable given the event and the panelists).
>>>> 
>>>>     Julf
>>>> 
>>>> On 13/06/2024 14:16, Frantisek Borsik via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>> It was share by RIPE on social media yesterday:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyxbwZzjTw
>>>>> 
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Frank
>>>>> 
>>>>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
>>>>> 
>>>>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 <+421%20919%20416%20714>
>>>>> 
>>>>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 <+420%20775%20230%20885>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Skype: casioa5302ca
>>>>> 
>>>>> frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
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>> 
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