[ih] Politics behind the Internet

[Craig Partridge]

You may or may not remember Milo Medin (later of @Home) in his role pushing
the NASA Science Internet.

Quite the reverse of bureaucratic BS -- rather bureaucratic leverage.  My
favorite one was c. 1990 -- Milo needed a single-mode fiber optic
connection to carry data from NASA Ames up the peninsula to, I think,
somewhere in Palo Alto.  Pac Bell's representatives didn't want to sell him
one and made various comments about how T3 could meet his needs.  So Milo
lost his patience and said something along the lines of "look, I'm the
Federal government, and I can run my own fiber up the railroad tracks.  I'm
giving you an opportunity to have me not do that".  PacBell caved quickly.

Craig

On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 9:38 AM Bob Purvy <bpurvy at gmail.com> wrote:

> > most of us know Licklider, Taylor, Kahn, Cerf, Wolfe - the folks at DOE
> & NASA, not so much.
>
> My point exactly. The DOE & NASA folks could have smothered it all in
> bureaucratic BS, but they didn't.
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 8:25 AM Miles Fidelman <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Bob Purvy wrote:
>>
>> > The program
>> managers involved did something very unlike government program managers
>> - they connected their networks instead of building their own fiefdoms
>> (and they let their users design and build the various networks).
>>
>> ... and this is why, on the Internet Old Farts on Facebook, I gave a
>> shoutout to the admins who did this. Everyone knows the names of the people
>> on this list, and they should, but those anonymous managers in the
>> government COULD have done the safe thing and followed normal bureaucratic
>> protocols, but did not.
>>
>> Well, I think most of us know Licklider, Taylor, Kahn, Cerf, Wolfe - the
>> folks at DOE & NASA, not so much.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Miles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 7:10 AM Miles Fidelman via Internet-history <
>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Craig Partridge via Internet-history wrote:
>>> > On Sun, Jul 21, 2024 at 7:59 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
>>> > internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> IIRC, there was little talk of "spreading" either politically or
>>> >> economically.  Simply put, there was no relevant audience reachable
>>> >> through the networks.   All users were internal, working on or for
>>> >> government projects.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> > I broadly agree with Jack but will disagree in one element - it wasn't
>>> all
>>> > inward focused on ARPA funded folks.  By 1980, computer science
>>> programs in
>>> > the United States noticed that departments that had ARPANET access were
>>> > experiencing greater research success, in part because it was easier to
>>> > collaborate with other researchers.  This led to the notion of
>>> providing
>>> > email and (limited) TCP/IP access to the Internet via CSNET, which was
>>> set
>>> > up as a joint DARPA-NSF program in 1981.  Broadly, that worked -- by
>>> 1986,
>>> > over 150 universities and research labs (such as HP Labs) were on
>>> CSNET, to
>>> > which you have to add the many universities directly on ARPANET.
>>> > Essentially, any top 100 and most top 200 research universities in the
>>> US
>>> > were on ARPANET or CSNET.
>>> >
>>> > Thus when NSF was looking for a way to supercharge computing and
>>> research
>>> > in STEM, with supercomputers and network access, CSNET showed how that
>>> > could work.
>>> >
>>> The magic of the Internet, is that it grew by demand-pull, from the
>>> beginning.  The ARPANET was created to reduce comms costs for
>>> researchers - who were basically told to spend their communications
>>> budgets on ARPANET connectivity - forcing universities to start building
>>> campus networks.  Then non-ARPA-funded researchers saw the value their
>>> colleagues were getting from connectivity - and demanded that NSF, and
>>> DOE, and NASA, and ... build networks for them - and the program
>>> managers involved did something very unlike government program managers
>>> - they connected their networks instead of building their own fiefdoms
>>> (and they let their users design and build the various networks).
>>> Government contractors discovered that they needed to be plugged in, and
>>> found ways to get connectivity. Graduating students needed connectivity
>>> - if only to email with potential employers.
>>>
>>> Barry Shein set up the World.  I started reselling TELENET services.
>>> NEARNET was built, largely with user funding - hence not subject to
>>> "government only" traffic restrictions (Prospect Hill allowed a
>>> microwave dish on their roof, in return for a connection to their campus
>>> network).
>>>
>>> And it all just happened.
>>>
>>> And then the marketeers stepped in, and started rebuilding a world of
>>> walled gardens, designed to capture markets, instead of fostering
>>> communication & collaboration.  And now we find ourselves in today's
>>> mess - where connectivity & interoperability are no longer the core
>>> values & virtues of the net.
>>>
>>> Sigh...
>>>
>>> Miles Fidelman
>>>
>>> --
>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>>> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>>>
>>> Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
>>> Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
>>> In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
>>> nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown
>>>
>>> --
>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>>
>> Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
>> Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
>> In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
>> nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown
>>
>>

-- 
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