[ih] Where are we preserving these early documents? Re: early networking: "the solution"

[Bob Purvy]

Indeed, for a while I was considering a new novel set in the Roman Empire
(who was the *second* Pope? I bet you don't know), but the paucity of
documents was a deal killer.

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 1:12 PM Craig Partridge <craig at tereschau.net> wrote:

> Speaking as someone who trained as a historian (as an undergrad), I'd
> suggest it is more nuanced.
>
> Once you get past about the 14th century in western Europe (later in
> other parts of the world) the central problem is the overwhelming
> volume of sources, many of which require specialized expertise to
> interpret.  In many cases, when you have a specific research question,
> the process feels like dumpster diving -- and figuring out where in
> the dumpster the information you want might be hiding.  If you find
> information, great!  if you don't there's the nagging question of did
> you miss it (look in the wrong place) or is it really an unanswerable
> question (e.g. the source didn't survive).  This bears on Jack H's
> point about perspectives -- if you ask the question "what was the
> experience of social group G in the early days of the Internet", the
> material may or may not exist, but your first challenge is figuring
> out where it might be hiding.
>
> Even for very modest topics, one sometimes finds that experts develop
> detailed and often substantial meta-finding aids (across various
> museums and archives).  Just to mention one example: Randy Schoenberg
> maintains a finding aid for information on the pre-WWII Jewish
> communities of Austria and Bohemia (Czech Republic) that, if memory
> serves, now runs over 100 powerpoint slides.
>
> Craig
>
> On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 1:43 PM John Day via Internet-history
> <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >
> > History never has all of it. That is the bane of history.
> >
> > See Arcadia by Tom Stoppard.
> >
> > > On Apr 27, 2024, at 14:40, Bob Purvy via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Sorry, I disagree.  There's a lot of the history that's not captured
> in
> > > artifacts such as "founder's interviews" and documents such as RFCs.
> > >
> > > Clearly, but I'd just say, "compared to what?"
> > >
> > > Are all the relevant documents for D-Day available in one place? How
> about
> > > the WW II docs on Enigma? How about the IBM 360 OS? Sure, we have a
> lot of
> > > it, but do we have *all* of it?
> > >
> > > On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 10:49 AM Jack Haverty <jack at 3kitty.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 4/22/24 09:31, Bob Purvy wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I think that actually, the early history of the Internet is fairly
> WELL
> > >> preserved. Certainly better than a lot of other things.
> > >> ,
> > >> The Computer History Museum has a whole bunch of lengthy interviews
> with
> > >> founders, all transcribed neatly.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Sorry, I disagree.  There's a lot of the history that's not captured
> in
> > >> artifacts such as "founder's interviews" and documents such as RFCs.
> > >>
> > >> Everyone involved in a snippet of history, such as the "Early Internet
> > >> Era" has a different perspective on what they experienced.  The
> situation
> > >> is much like that old story about the blind describing an elephant
> after
> > >> touching it - one thinks it's a big snake, another concludes it's a
> big
> > >> bird, a third thinks it's some kind of tree.  It all depends on which
> part
> > >> of the elephant they touched.
> > >>
> > >> How did people competing with the Internet perceive it?   The phone
> > >> companies, the big computer vendors, the startups promoting their own
> > >> alternatives, and many others all had their views of the Internet as
> it
> > >> destroyed them.
> > >>
> > >> How did people trying to use the Internet technology experience it?
> I was
> > >> amazed at how many corporations in non-computer industries were
> > >> experimenting with their own internal "intranets" during the 80s and
> 90s,
> > >> as they searched for some solution to their IT needs that could
> actually be
> > >> deployed.  I recall, for example, helping one of the big investment
> houses
> > >> in NYC as they tried to use routers to interconnect London, New York,
> and
> > >> Tokyo, encountering lots of surprises and disappointments along the
> way.
> > >> Yet industry all abandoned other schemes and adopted TCP/IP for their
> > >> corporate communications.   Why?  I've never seen any papers,
> interviews,
> > >> or other records of any of those early experiences as the technology
> > >> escaped from the research to the operational worlds.
> > >>
> > >> How did mere Users experience the Internet?   From the earliest days
> of
> > >> dial-up, and services such as Compuserve, Lotus Notes, to the World
> Wide
> > >> Web, what was the Users' experience?
> > >>
> > >> IMHO, all of those perspectives, and more, are parts of Internet
> History,
> > >> not even captured or well preserved.
> > >>
> > >> Jack Haverty
> > >>
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> >
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>
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