[ih] early networking: "the solution"

[Brian E Carpenter]

On 22-Apr-24 07:00, John Day via Internet-history wrote:
> I have a vague recollection of a paper (possibly by Craig Partridge) that talked about ATM dropping cells (and possibly other different forms of errors) and how IP and other protocols were not built to detect such losses.

There was also a paper, I think from LBL, showing that in terms of efficient use of the wire for small packets, 48 bytes was just about the worst possible choice, based on observations of actual packet sizes.

I couldn't find that one, but I did find https://ee.lbl.gov/papers/tcp_atm.pdf

    Brian

> 
> Am I dreaming?
> 
> John
> 
>> On Apr 21, 2024, at 09:10, Scott Bradner via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>> yes but...
>>
>> the ATM Forum people felt that ATM should replace TCP and most of IP
>> i.e. become the new IP and that new applications should assume they were
>> running over ATM and directly make use of ATM features (e.g., ABR)
>>
>> ATM as yet another wire was just fine (though a bit choppy)
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 21, 2024, at 9:02 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> ATM could carry any protocol that you could carry over Ethernet, see RFCs 2225, 2492, and 2684.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 8:15 PM Scott Bradner via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 20, 2024, at 8:11 PM, John Gilmore via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> John Day via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>> In the early 70s, people were trying to figure out how to interwork multiple networks of different technologies. What was the solution that was arrived at that led to the current Internet?
>>>>> I conjectured yesterday that the fundamental solution must have been in hand by the time Cerf and Kahn published their paper.
>>>>> Are you conjecturing that the solution was gateways? and hence protocol translation at the gateways?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it's too obvious in retrospect.  But the "solution" that I see was
>>>> that everyone had to move to using a protocol that was independent of
>>>> their physical medium.
>>>
>>> and ATM was an example of the reverse - it was a protocol & a network - OK
>>> as long as you did not build applications that knew they were running over ATM
>>> (or if ATM had been the last networking protocol)
>>>
>>> Scott
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>>
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>