[ih] QUIC story

[Barbara Denny]

 I understand the strong motivation in the early days and witnessed it.  I think I have also seen and experienced where  it is not as easy as your description implies to participate in the IETF in various capacities. The maturity of the core protocols and desire to obtain market share, besides the expense, business pressures and time involved, may also weigh on participation.  I was just wondering how new people and businesses and perhaps even funding organizations become knowledgeable and hopefully encouraged to continue to support relevant activities.
 I admit I was surprised at the time of the talk that even in Google it appeared that there were holes in plans to present information to what I believed are relevant organizations. Of course it is a very large company and the people doing the original QUIC work may not have really have come up through the networking ranks. 
barbara 
    On Saturday, June 25, 2022, 05:12:20 AM PDT, Jorge Amodio <jmamodio at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 
I'm not sure where you get your information from, but vendors have been deeply involved since the early days of the Internet, even ARPANet, BBN, Cisco, DEC, etc, were private companies and "vendors" since their inception and there has been a constant participation from companies and services providers for very long time.
As others noted there is a specific QUIC working group at IETF, several RFC has been published as standards and there are many more documents on the working group.

People interested in the evolution of networking technology can quickly find information about the existence of the IETF and how to participate. You can even request a fee waiver for remote participation.
Many vendors already know that if they want to promote and push some Internet related technology, participation in forums such as the IETF is a must, and many of them have been active financial supporters.
Looking at the attendee list for each of the meetings you can find what companies from time to time have people from the ranks participating in the meetings. As far as I remember Google has been a constant presence for more than 15+ years. There are already at least19 people from Google registered as participants for IETF 114 in Philly.
But IETF is not the only discussion forum, there are many other industry driven groups, service operators groups such as NANOG, etc., where you can find ways to engage.
My .02Warm Regards
Jorge

On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 3:35 PM Barbara Denny via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

I am not sure I agree with everything you have said regarding the vendors.  This may have been true when the Internet was young but I have seen otherwise.  Sure they have to be aware of the specs but devoting resources to and understand/participate in  the workings of IETF is another matter.  At one point, I personally had to push pretty hard for someone to complete some work for a working group that I thought I had a firm commitment from a different division to do.  This was at a commercial entity.  

This Bay Area ACM talk was well before 2016.  I am pretty sure it was after 2011.  

barbara


   On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 12:59:37 PM PDT, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis at gmail.com> wrote:  

 Barbara,
Google has been at the IETF for quite some time (since at least July 2010), so it's possible that the person you spoke to just wasn't personally aware. Do you remember when you were at that presentation? In the IETF, the QUIC work started as a BOF in July 2016 and first met as a WG that November. They published RFC 9000, the QUIC transport protocol spec, about a year ago, and very recently published RFC 9114, the HTTP/3 spec. They have a lot else going on as well, see https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/quic/documents/ .
BTW, Google may have been coming even earlier to the IETF, but for some reason the IETF's attendee records prior to July 2010 are offline. I'm going to bring that to their attention.
More widely to your question about how new people come aboard, the IETF is VERY well known in the networking/telecom industry, since any equipment vendors that want to implement anything in the space have to conform to the RFCs. So vendors certainly are proactive about sending people if they have anything they want to get standardized, or just to understand what's going on. Network operators not so much; some come, but many tend to proxy through their vendors to save money. But they're certainly aware of the work, since they have to write RFPs that include the RFCs they want their equipment to implement.
Cheers,Andy

On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 2:28 PM Barbara Denny via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

Hi,
I have been wondering for quite sometime how new people to the field learn about how to incorporate their ideas.  Is there some active outreach to encourage corporations to engage in the IETF? How do their employees, or even students, learn about such things? Etc.... I predate the IETF so my experience is very different than people today.
This is tied into a story about QUIC.  For many years I attended talks hosted by the Bay Area ACM.  The topics were always a mix of things but almost never anything to do with networking.  I was pleasantly surprised when someone started to present information on a transport protocol called QUIC.   Someone from Google gave the presentation. Unfortunately I don't remember the person's name.  At the end of the presentation,  I asked had they approached the IETF regarding what they were doing (I think they had started, or about to start, some real world testing).  Their response made me feel like they hadn't done anything in this regard and left me wondering whether they were even familiar with the IETF.  I suggested they consider starting a dialogue with the transport area.
barbara
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