[ih] Separation of TCP and IP

[Toerless Eckert]

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 10:35:20PM -0600, Grant Taylor via Internet-history wrote:
> I think I understand your concern.  However I question the veracity of your
> concern.

Well, the contributors who wanted fast and wide spread of their transport
work certainly choose the "over UDP" route instead of other routes. The
next best thing i remember is LD_PRELOAD solutions, but those overloaded
TCP sockets without actually doing TCP stacks. So i am not aware of recent
RAW socket TCP stacks. Happy to learn what you remember/know!

> 
> > Of course, if we would have started with everything on top of UDP,
> > including TCP, that would have resulted in a whole other set of
> > interesting challenges over the decades, some of which i think we
> > haven't even solved well today.
> 
> Would you be willing to elaborate?

We have multiple decades of managing network traffic based on 5-tuple with
well-known port numbres. This has eroded in the past decade for Internet
traffic due to end-to-end encryption and will erode even more due to QUIC.

There where a few drafts pointing out the issues that are yet to come
with QUIC proliferation.  If we would not have had this history, but one
where like we will get it with QUIC now there are only meaningless UDP
port numbers and no other visibility, then i wouldn't even dare to predict
how a lot of the stuff we did with those 5 tuples would have evolved over the decades.

Granted, we could probably had it half way, so i was justing about the
extreme case.

Cheers
    Toerless
> 
> P.S. Please reply to the Internet History mailing list, I don't want my own
> direct copy.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
> -- 
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> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
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---
tte at cs.fau.de