[ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 20, Issue 4

Sun May 9 06:32:37 PDT 2021

i should compare the scans with your collection, Jake.
agree on paper - unfortunately, not all material is renderable on paper.
v

On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 5:24 PM Jake Feinler via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> I am jumping into the middle of this and haven’t seen what went before,
> but thought you would like to know
>
> A full set of (paper) IENs is contained in the collection I gave to the
> Computer History Museum, Mountain View, CA..
>
> And you will be amused to know that when I told a group at ISOC that my
> wish was for a computer storage medium that lasted as long as paper,
> everyone laughed and thought I was joking.  I wasn’t.  So far I have lived
> through:  library catalogs on cards, microfilm, microfiche, punched cards,
> computer tapes (both 7 and 9 track), floppy disks, small and large hard
> disks, thumb drives, information servers, the web, and the cloud (and
> probably a few I’ve forgotten).  Each has had more or less a 10 year time
> frame, before we moved on to something else and obsoleted everything that
> came before.  And try to find something that stands still on the web - now
> you see it, now you don’t. True, all these processes are faster and more
> portable, but not necessarily more durable. I say, historians should not
> count paper out, until they have something that can outlast it.
>
> My 2c for what it is worth.
>
> Jake
>
> > On May 8, 2021, at 12:00 PM, internet-history-request at elists.isoc.org
> wrote:
> >
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> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Fwd:  [xbbn] Re: Museum archiving (was: Re: IENs) (John Day)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 14:41:47 -0400
> > From: John Day <jeanjour at comcast.net>
> > To: BBN Alumni <xbbn at xbbn.org>, internet-history
> >       <internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
> > Subject: [ih] Fwd:  [xbbn] Re: Museum archiving (was: Re: IENs)
> > Message-ID: <34EF09B8-F26E-49B0-B982-096AA220DD13 at comcast.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;     charset=utf-8
> >
> > Sorry forgot Reply-All
> >
> >> Begin forwarded message:
> >>
> >> From: John Day <jeanjour at comcast.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [ih] [xbbn] Re: Museum archiving (was: Re: IENs)
> >> Date: May 8, 2021 at 14:39:47 EDT
> >> To: vinton cerf <vgcerf at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> Yes, I know. They weren?t my concern. Generally, it isn?t librarians
> who have these ideas. They understand. It is further up the chain that
> there are barbaric ideas. Much of CBI is available on-line. I thought that
> once they scanned material it became available.
> >>
> >> They are currently renovating the ?math building? at Illinois. Altgeld
> is one of the oldest buildings on campus and the original library, now the
> math library. It has a glorious reading room with those great ?working and
> learning? murals of the early 20thC and they are making sure that they
> preserve and repair the glass floors of the stacks!! (Only have to light
> every other row on two floors.) The building and the math dept deserve each
> other. The floor plan has half floors and other twists and turns that make
> it almost a maze, and the secreted Bourbaki?s office!  ;-)
> >>
> >>> On May 8, 2021, at 12:07, vinton cerf <vgcerf at gmail.com <mailto:
> vgcerf at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> that is not the case here. Univ MN Library retains the originals.
> >>> v
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 11:36 AM John Day via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>>
> wrote:
> >>> The thing that scares me are the administrators who think that that
> because the material has been scanned the original artifacts are no longer
> needed and can be discarded. It is far more important than that. At best,
> it means the artifacts don?t need to be handled as often, which as the
> centuries go on becomes more and more critical.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>>> On May 8, 2021, at 11:12, David Walden <dave.walden.family at gmail.com
> <mailto:dave.walden.family at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> i have been an amateur but serious historian for a couple of decades
> and accessing archives and observing professional historians over that
> time.  I think commitment to scanning/digitizing documents is important.
> Archives with tight budgets employing people not used to engineering level
> salaries and other compensation tend to see scanning/digitizing as *very*,
> perhaps prohibitively, expensively.  Document contributors on this list
> might be able to help them think about digitizing costs and methods.
> >>>>
> >>>> Back maybe to the sense of Dave's question, archives may not be
> interested in everything one has to give.  It may take more than one
> archive to find homes for one's materials.
> >>>>
> >>>> Finding aids are important, as Craig noted.  An archive depending on
> google-like searches is less desirable in my view.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On May 8, 2021, at 10:11 AM, John Day via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
> <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> A slight correction, Craig.
> >>>>> I am a recognized historian in the History of Science and
> Cartography, primarily 17thC-18thC China and published widely. I have spent
> considerable time in archives across Asia and Europe and with private
> collectors. My experience goes well beyond computer museums, as I told Dave
> off-list, including junk rooms in the Vatican. (Sometimes one finds things
> in the oddest places.) ;-)
> >>>>> You are right about access. Electronic copies can be nice, but there
> are important things about provenance, etc. that one can only learn by
> seeing the artifact itself.
> >>>>> John
> >>>>>> On May 8, 2021, at 08:50, Craig Partridge <craig at tereschau.net
> <mailto:craig at tereschau.net> <mailto:craig at tereschau.net <mailto:
> craig at tereschau.net>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Dave:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You asked about museums and their commitment to archiving.  As
> someone who was trained as a historian and still does occasional archival
> work for fun, I'll hazard a somewhat structural answer and then John D. can
> comment on computing museums.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One can assess archives on at least three dimensions:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> * Commitment to ensuring their collections are preserved for
> centuries to come.  This requires money (for fire suppression and
> temperature monitoring and the like) and also requires careful evaluation
> and planning (preserving paper for instance, is different from preserving
> paintings, which is different from preserving fabrics).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> * Commitment to creating finding aids (catalogs, indexes,
> collection descriptions) that enable researchers to find items in the
> collections.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> * Commitment to making their collections available for research (or
> public display).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The last may surprise folks but there are a number of institutions
> that have strong views about who should and should not be able to use their
> collections, usually to the detriment of scholarship and the public
> interest.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (And, if you want an example of exactly how not to do all three,
> consider the team of scholars who were originally given control of the Dead
> Sea Scrolls).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Craig
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> *****
> >>>>>> Craig Partridge's email account for professional society activities
> and mailing lists.
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> > End of Internet-history Digest, Vol 20, Issue 4
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