[ih] distributed network control: Usenet

[Jack Haverty]

Thanks Vint.  Dates have always been hard (for me at least) to keep sorted.

Per the authoritative voice of Wikipedia - "Support for NSFNET end-users 
was provided by the NSF Network Service Center (NNSC), located at BBN 
Technologies <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBN_Technologies>". But I 
can't say I remember anything about that at all.

Also I agree we didn't get involved with the Fuzzball network as it got 
rolled out to NSF et al.  However, I remember clearly various "events" 
that occurred several years earlier while Dave was developing his 
Fuzzball code and a few Fuzzies were part of the fledgling Internet.   
At some of the meetings, we would jokingly rib each other.   Dave would 
report on something his Fuzzies tried to do; I would report on the 
ensuing disruptions in the Internet we were trying to make reliable.   I 
joked that Dave's tendency was to poke at the Internet in some new way 
and say "Hey, look, it turned pink, let's see what else we can do."   I 
would respond with something like "Please don't do that."   Dave was the 
scientist, exploring the unknown.  I was the engineer, trying to get the 
beast to keep running.

That was all before 1982 and was a strong motivation for creating the 
notion of ASes and EGP.   EGP allowed us both to be happy and keep 
scientific experimentation and operational engineering from doing battle 
inside the Internet.

/Jack

On 7/20/21 6:49 PM, vinton cerf wrote:
> The fuzzball net arrived about 1986 at 50Kb/s - congested quickly and 
> the IBM/MCI/MERIT version of NSFNET launched in 1988 at 1.5 Mb/s
>
> I am not aware of any involvement of BBN in either the fuzzball 
> network or the subsequent NSFNET except that presumably Mills 
> implemented EGP. BGP doesn't arrive until 1989 and as I recall, Yakov 
> Rekhter of IBM and Keith Loughead at Cisco wrote RFC 1105 describing it.
>
> v
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 8:02 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history 
> <internet-history at elists.isoc.org 
> <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>
>     It's the time frame.   My comment was about the period before EGP was
>     created in 1982.   The IETF didn't exist yet.   I don't remember
>     which
>     if any of those networks existed before 1982.   But if they did, I
>     think
>     they had a single manager.
>
>     /Jack
>
>
>     On 7/20/21 4:45 PM, Tony Li wrote:
>     > No, all of the regionals and other networks were various
>     independent organizations. There was no centralization, just the
>     chaos of trying to keep things working through the informal
>     network of operator’s personal connections. For this, the IETF and
>     NANOG were indispensable.
>     >
>     > Tony
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >> On Jul 20, 2021, at 4:39 PM, Jack Haverty via Internet-history
>     <internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>     <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> Weren't those all managed by the same organization or its
>     contractor, in the early 80s before EGP?
>     >>
>     >> I remember that at one point BBN was the contractor managing
>     CSNET (Dick Edmiston).   NSFNET started in mid-80s and IIRC was
>     thoroughly dominated by Dave Mills' Fuzzballs. Our experiences
>     when Dave was experimenting with connecting his Fuzzies to the
>     core Internet was a primary motivator for EGP, which made it
>     possible for Fuzzies to connect and do their thing without
>     impacting the core.   BBN had some managerial role in NSFNET too IIRC.
>     >>
>     >> After EGP, and probably more importantly BGP, the world of
>     Internetworking changed.
>     >>
>     >> /Jack
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> On 7/20/21 4:03 PM, Miles Fidelman via Internet-history wrote:
>     >>>> Jack Haverty wrote:
>     >>>>> What I was referencing was a non-technical design decision
>     -- the notion
>     >>>>> that there shouldn't be any single person, corporation, or
>     organization
>     >>>>> "managing the network".   The ARPANET, and IIRC all other
>     networks of
>     >>>>> the day, were under a single organization's control.
>     >>> Really?  NASA SPAN, DOEnet, then CSnet, and then the
>     Supercomputer Center Networks, and the NSFnet regionals & Backbone?
>     >>>>
>     >>>
>     >>
>     >> --
>     >> Internet-history mailing list
>     >> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>     <mailto:Internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
>     >> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>     <https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Internet-history mailing list
>     Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>     <mailto:Internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
>     https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>     <https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history>
>