[ih] NCP, TCP/IP question

Tue Mar 10 05:46:33 PDT 2020

there were at least two NCP implementations for UNIX...  one was written by
Steve Zucker at RAND and the other was (perhaps?) written by Steve Holmgren
at the University of illinois Urbana-Champaign.

yours truly had interactions with both of these NCP implementations --
with Steve Holmgren integrating the Network Virtual Terminals into the
kernel (from the telnetd pty processes).

the Rand NCP implementation (in Peter Weiner's RAND-ISD lab) "lost" and to
yours trulys knowledge didn't get adopted outside of RAND.

geoff

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 10:29 PM Steve Crocker via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> If memory serves, prior to Multics and Unix and with the exception of the
> Burrough’s computers, operating systems were written in the assembly
> language of the machine.  This includes the Sigma 7 (host 1), the SDS 940
> (host 2), the IBM 360 (host 3) and Tenex (host 4).  The NCP (“Network
> Control *Program*") was an addition to the existing code of the operating
> system and, I believe, written in the same language as the operating
> system.  I think C appeared with Unix.  I don't think C was used or
> available on Tenex, but I'm not the most authoritative source.  I don't
> know much about the later implementations of NCP.  PDP-11s became popular
> and there were several operating systems written for them.  ELF (Dave Retz
> in Santa Barbara) and ANTS (University of Illinois) come to mind, and I
> think there were others.  At the time, I had the impression writing network
> compatible operating systems for the PDP-11 was a cottage industry.
>
> It would be interesting to compare the timelines of the transition from NCP
> to TCP/IP with the evolution of hosts from the Tenex era to the Unix era.
>
> Steve
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 2:09 AM Vint Cerf <vint at google.com> wrote:
>
> > NCP was probably done in assembly language for most operating systems -
> > adding steve crocker for comment
> > TCP was written in BCPL at Stanford for PDP-11/40. Probaby C for Tenex.
> > PL/1 (?) for 360's???
> >
> > Let me ask the Internet History list.
> >
> > v
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 2:03 AM Steve Kirsch <stk at m10.io> wrote:
> >
> >> Was it written in C? you’d think only a small part would have to be
> >> customized for the operating system?!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:* Vint Cerf <vint at google.com>
> >> *Sent:* Monday, March 9, 2020 1:59 AM
> >> *To:* Steve Kirsch <stk at m10.io>
> >> *Subject:* Re: NCP, TCP/IP question
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 1. NCP was written individually for each operating system
> >>
> >> 2. TCP was also written for each operating system but UNIX propagated
> >> most widely; TENEX version was popular for PDP-10s.
> >>
> >> Bob Braden did the TCP for IBM 360/91 and I think that got ported to
> >> 360/75 at UCSB. Berkeley BSD 4.2 and follow-ons was most widely spread
> for
> >> UNIX.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> v
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 4:15 AM Steve Kirsch <stk at m10.io> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>    1. Did UCLA provide the source code for NCP and TCP/IP for various
> >>    places to run?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    1. Or did everyone write their own implementation based on the spec?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If the latter, was that problematic? Would it have been easier if
> >> everyone ran Unix and there was C source code that was distributed to
> >> everyone to run? Is that in fact what in fact happened? Why UCLA lost
> their
> >> SEX and became EUNUCHs… I mean UNIX?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > --
> >>
> >> New postal address:
> >>
> >> Google
> >>
> >> 1875 Explorer Street, 10th Floor
> >> <
> https://www.google.com/maps/search/1875+Explorer+Street,+10th+Floor+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Reston,+VA+20190?entry=gmail&source=g
> >
> >>
> >> <
> https://www.google.com/maps/search/1875+Explorer+Street,+10th+Floor+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Reston,+VA+20190?entry=gmail&source=g
> >
> >>
> >> <
> https://www.google.com/maps/search/1875+Explorer+Street,+10th+Floor+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Reston,+VA+20190?entry=gmail&source=g
> >
> >>
> >> <
> https://www.google.com/maps/search/1875+Explorer+Street,+10th+Floor+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Reston,+VA+20190?entry=gmail&source=g
> >
> >>
> >> Reston, VA 20190
> >> <
> https://www.google.com/maps/search/1875+Explorer+Street,+10th+Floor+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Reston,+VA+20190?entry=gmail&source=g
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > New postal address:
> > Google
> > 1875 Explorer Street, 10th Floor
> > <
> https://www.google.com/maps/search/1875+Explorer+Street,+10th+Floor+Reston,+VA+20190?entry=gmail&source=g
> >
> > Reston, VA 20190
> > <
> https://www.google.com/maps/search/1875+Explorer+Street,+10th+Floor+Reston,+VA+20190?entry=gmail&source=g
> >
> >
> --
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>
>

-- 
Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com
living as The Truth is True
http://geoff.livejournal.com