[ih] Protocol numbers (was IP version 7)

[Jack Haverty]

Here's what I remember... it's been a long time!

The SATNET and MATNET projects were active at the same time, in the
early 80s.  For a year or two they were two if the Internet projects
under my responsibility at BBN.

At that point, SATNET was considered operational, part of the 24x7
operational "core gateways" part of the Internet, both managed 24x7 by
the NOC at BBN.   That occurred after the gateway project (Ginny
Strazisar et al) was transferred to my group at BBN (Bob Hinden et al)
with the task to "make the Internet 24x7 operational and reliable as a
service", following in the footsteps of the ARPANET.

Concurrently, MATNET was a research prototype, deployed on the Carl
Vinson (not sure if any other ships), to evaluate the ability to use
satellite-based TCP/IP technology on ships at sea.  So it was functional
only during testing, demonstrations, etc.

MATNET was essentially following the same path as Packet Radio.  Instead
of network nodes and computers in jeeps, helicopters et al in PRNets,
MATNET nodes were onboard ships.  Both were still in the "research"
stage, while the (core) Gateways and SATNET were considered
"operational" at the time.

ARPA had a grand plan to use Internet technology to solve DoD
communications needs for the future, integrating scattered pieces of the
military into a cohesive C3I system (Communications, Command, Control,
Intelligence).

Vint - I remember your presentation of a target military scenario which
we then used as a target for developing Internet technology.  It
involved soldiers in jeeps, planes, et al, communicating with sailors in
ships, and all parts of DoD in fixed locations, e.g., the Pentagon,
Intelligence organizations, etc.   That's what drove our thinking and
decisions.

The ARPANET was a core part of that picture, evolving into the DDN. 
SATNET had birthed MATNET to hopefully handle Navy communications. 
PRNet targeted the Army and maybe Air Force?   All of that was a driver
for research efforts.

The ARPANET->DDN, PRNET->Army and SATNET->MATNET(Navy) transitions were
illustrative of the "pipeline" that had been created to bring research
results into operational use, i.e., to create the (military-driven)
Internet.

In July 1983, BBN re-organized, and collected the "researchy" projects
into one part of the organization, and the "operational" into another.  
I ended up in the "operational" side, being more interested in bringing
the technology into wide usage than in creating more new technology.  
So I lost track of the researchy projects and the "pipeline".   I'm
curious how that pipeline progressed through the later 80s/90s, e.g.,
which of the research efforts can be traced forward to use in today's
operational systems.   But I've not run across much written about that
aspect of Internet History.

/Jack Haverty

On 12/24/20 10:41 AM, vinton cerf wrote:
> I left ARPA around October 1982 to join MCI and build MCI Mail. BBN
> supplied the network.
> I left MCI (the first time) in June 1986 to join Bob Kahn at CNRI.
> Since I remember the MATNET, I suspect it might have gotten its start
> in the early 1980s while SATNET was still running. Jack H, do you know?
> I left CNRI in October 1994 to join MCI a second time, staying until
> October 2005 at which point I joined Google.
>
> v
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 1:26 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history
> <internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>
>     MATNET was a satellite-based network, essentially a ship-based
>     clone of
>     the land-based SATNET which was one of the earliest "core" networks of
>     the Internet.  Both involved IMPs (actually "SIMPS" for Satellite
>     IMP),
>     with the MATNET nodes onboard ships.
>
>     Frank Deckelman was the Navy rep (and funnel for the money) for
>     MATNET. 
>     I remember that we put a MATNET node on the aircraft carrier USS Carl
>     Vinson, which was the Navy's test site for new technology at the
>     time. 
>     Frank participated in Internet-related meetings, and even brought the
>     Captain of the Carl Vinson to one.   This was part of ARPA's
>     "technology
>     transfer" -- it was a full duplex communications mechanism, sending
>     technology into military use, and receiving $s from the Navy to fund
>     continued research.
>
>     I also don't recall the term "METANET" at all.   But I do recall that
>     Frank had a need for a "Shipboard LAN" and had us (BBN) start
>     investigating that.   IIRC, it was an obvious next step to provide
>     a way
>     to hook up shipboard computers to the shipboard MATNET node.   Ken
>     Pogran may remember more.
>
>     At about that time (mid-1983) BBN reorganized and I lost contact with
>     the Navy projects.  I don't know, but I suspect METANET may have
>     been a
>     follow-on project to MATNET, to create LAN and Internet technology
>     suitable for shipboard operation (e.g., operating under EMCOM
>     conditions).   Probably also involved Frank Deckelman.
>
>     Vint - you had probably moved on to MCI, and I had moved on to the
>     "operational" arena of DDN et al, so "METANET" isn't in our memories.
>
>     /Jack Haverty
>
>     On 12/24/20 6:52 AM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>     > was there any relationship between METANET (which I do not
>     remember) and
>     > MATNET (which I do remember)?
>     >
>     > v
>     >
>     >
>     > On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 9:40 AM Craig Partridge via
>     Internet-history <
>     > internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>     <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>     >
>     >> On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 7:09 PM Barbara Denny via
>     Internet-history <
>     >> internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>     <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >>>  I will throw out a guess about the mystery EMCON protocol number
>     >>> assignment.  It might be related to SRI's work for the Navy.
>     We had a
>     >>> project called  Metanet that was looking at how to support TCP/IP
>     >>> networking when ships were under emission control.  In 1984, I
>     gave a
>     >>> presentation about the work at a Gateway Special Interest
>     Group Meeting
>     >>> hosted by Jon Postel at ISI (see RFC 898).  I don't remember
>     us asking
>     >> for
>     >>> a protocol number yet but we could have. I also wonder if Jon
>     may have
>     >>> created a placeholder for us. I was working on the Ada
>     implementation of
>     >>> the gateway at that point in time.  I don't think we had the EMCON
>     >> details
>     >>> worked out yet.  The project got cancelled unexpectedly and on
>     short
>     >> notice
>     >>> due to a change in personnel if I remember correctly.
>     >>> barbara
>     >>>
>     >>
>     >> Hey Barbara:
>     >>
>     >> I didn't know you worked on METANET! That was my first project
>     as a new
>     >> employee at BBN in 1983.  The job on the BBN side was to figure
>     out if
>     >> different network topologies worked more or less well for
>     shipboard command
>     >> centers.  As I recall, Ken Pogran was the initial PM and got
>     TCP/IP working
>     >> on a bus network (Ungermann-Bass?) and then transitioned to
>     something else,
>     >> so Ben Woznick took over and I was hired to get TCP/IP working
>     on the 80MB
>     >> Proteon Ring. That was grand fun.  Rick Adams at Seismo also
>     had a Proteon
>     >> Ring and I gave him my driver for his network.  And I swapped
>     email for the
>     >> first time with Noel Chiappa -- as I recall, I was using another
>     >> Proteon network interface driver for guidance and its comments
>     noted that
>     >> an old version of some Proteon board had a real halt and catch
>     fire feature
>     >> (if you set the initialization word wrong, smoke happened) and Noel
>     >> observed that the comment was no longer valid. And I had the
>     fastest
>     >> network in Cambridge all to myself (but, alas, had nothing much
>     to run on
>     >> it).
>     >>
>     >> Craig
>     >>
>     >> --
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>
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