[ih] vint's 3 piece suits (was: Internet-history Digest, Vol 11, Issue 2)
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
ocl at gih.com
Sat Aug 8 14:19:10 PDT 2020
More fundamentally, when did Steve's beard migrate to Vint? :-)
Best,
Olivier
On 08/08/2020 22:11, the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via
Internet-history wrote:
> indeed, that article has some great photos... most notably of which was
> (younger) vint cerf wearing... a 3 piece suit!
>
> so yours truly intrepidly is curious to know:
>
> - did vint also sport 3 piece suits in high school?
> - when did vint start wearing 2 piece suits?
> - has anyone on this list ever seen vint NOT in a 3 piece suit?
>
> sincerely in the interest of a complete Internet History,
>
> geoff
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 3:41 AM Andrew G. Malis via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> That article has some great photos!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andy
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 9:46 PM Jay Hauben via Internet-history <
>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/cyberspace/todays-internet-still-relies-on-an-arpanetera-protocol-the-request-for-comments
>>> Might you want to send this link to Sage?
>>> Jay
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 6:50 PM <internet-history-request at elists.isoc.org
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Send Internet-history mailing list submissions to
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>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era Protocol: The
>>>> Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
>>>> (the keyboard of geoff goodfellow)
>>>> 2. Re: Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
>>>> Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker) (Jack Haverty)
>>>> 3. Re: Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
>>>> Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker) (Vint Cerf)
>>>> 4. Re: Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
>>>> Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker) (Dave Crocker)
>>>> 5. Re: Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
>>>> Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker) (Dave Crocker)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 11:52:56 -1000
>>>> From: the keyboard of geoff goodfellow <geoff at iconia.com>
>>>> To: Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
>>>> Subject: [ih] Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
>>>> Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <
>>>> CAEf-zrix+kVN-0OEPEqLZJbKLqLSH97rhZDSSNYMpTCxVXJBZg at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>>>
>>>> *The RFC may be the ARPANET?s most enduring legacy*
>>>> EXCERPT:
>>>>
>>>> Each March, July, and November, we are reminded that the Internet is
>> not
>>>> quite the mature, stable technology that it seems to be. We rely on the
>>>> Internet as an essential tool for our economic, social, educational,
>> and
>>>> political lives. But when the Internet Engineering Task Force
>>>> <https://ietf.org/> meets every four months at an open conference that
>>>> bounces from continent to continent, more than 1,000 people from around
>>> the
>>>> world gather with change on their minds. Their vision of the global
>>> network
>>>> that all humanity shares is dynamic, evolving, and continuously
>>> improving.
>>>> Their efforts combine with the contributions of myriad others to ensure
>>>> that the Internet always works but is never done, never complete.
>>>>
>>>> The rapid yet orderly evolution of the Internet is all the more
>>> remarkable
>>>> considering the highly unusual way it happens: without a company, a
>>>> government, or a board of directors in charge. Nothing about digital
>>>> communications technology suggests that it should be self-organizing
>> or,
>>>> for that matter, fundamentally reliable. We enjoy an Internet that is
>>> both
>>>> of those at once because multiple generations of network developers
>> have
>>>> embraced a principle and a process that have been quite rare in the
>>> history
>>>> of technology. The principle is that the protocols that govern how
>>>> Internet-connected devices communicate should be open, expandable, and
>>>> robust. And the process that invents and refines those protocols
>> demands
>>>> collaboration and a large degree of consensus among all who care to
>>>> participate.
>>>>
>>>> As someone who was part of the small team that very deliberately
>> adopted
>>> a
>>>> collaborative, consensus-based process to develop protocols for the
>>> ARPANET
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET>?predecessor to the Internet?I
>>> have
>>>> been pleasantly surprised by how those ideas have persisted and
>>> succeeded,
>>>> even as the physical network has evolved from 50-kilobit-per-second
>>>> telephone lines in the mid-1960s to the fiber-optic, 5G, and satellite
>>>> links we enjoy today. Though our team certainly never envisioned
>>>> unforgeable ?privacy passes
>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-privacy-pass/>? or unique
>>>> identifiers
>>>> for Internet-connected drones
>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/drip/about/>?two proposed
>> protocols
>>>> discussed at the task force meeting this past March?we did circulate
>> our
>>>> ideas for the ARPANET as technical memos among a far-flung group of
>>>> computer scientists, collecting feedback and settling on solutions in
>>> much
>>>> the same way as today, albeit at a much smaller scale.
>>>>
>>>> We called each of those early memos a ?Request for Comments? or RFC.
>>>> Whatever networked device you use today, it almost certainly follows
>>> rules
>>>> laid down in ARPANET RFCs written decades ago, probably including
>>> protocols
>>>> for sending plain ASCII text (RFC 20
>>>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc20.html>, issued in 1969), audio or
>>> video
>>>> data streams (RFC 768 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc768.html>,
>> 1980),
>>>> and
>>>> Post Office Protocol, or POP, email (RFC 918
>>>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc918.html>, 1984).
>>>>
>>>> *Anatomy of an RFC*...
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>
>> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/cyberspace/todays-internet-still-relies-on-an-arpanetera-protocol-the-request-for-comments
>>>> --
>>>> Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com
>>>> living as The Truth is True
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:12:35 -0700
>>>> From: Jack Haverty <jack at 3kitty.org>
>>>> To: internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [ih] Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
>>>> Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
>>>> Message-ID: <2599cd97-c21a-11c6-49d3-cf874fefdaaa at 3kitty.org>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Geoff, interesting article...
>>>>
>>>> While the RFC has been enduring, I've always wondered -- where are all
>>>> the Comments in response to those thousands of RFCs that Requested
>>> them???
>>>> Is there some "form" site somewhere where each RFC appears when
>>>> published and has a "Comments" section to collect and preserve the
>>>> Comments.?? That kind of thing is pervasive today on all sorts of news
>>>> sites, blogs, etc.?? But IMHO the RFCs have somehow always been
>> ignoring
>>>> the Cs they Request.
>>>>
>>>> I recall writing only several RFCs, but comments typically came back
>> via
>>>> email discussions. ? Sometimes for years.? I fear most of that aspect
>> of
>>>> Internet History, the comments and discussions, has been lost. ? I
>>>> wonder if the long-standing "technology" of RFCs needs a Version 2,
>>>> which captures and preserves the Comments just as it has done for
>>>> decades with the Requests.
>>>>
>>>> I guess I should write an RFC about that........
>>>>
>>>> /Jack
>>>>
>>>> On 8/7/20 2:52 PM, the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via
>> Internet-history
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> *The RFC may be the ARPANET?s most enduring legacy*
>>>>> EXCERPT:
>>>>>
>>>>> Each March, July, and November, we are reminded that the Internet is
>>> not
>>>>> quite the mature, stable technology that it seems to be. We rely on
>> the
>>>>> Internet as an essential tool for our economic, social, educational,
>>> and
>>>>> political lives. But when the Internet Engineering Task Force
>>>>> <https://ietf.org/> meets every four months at an open conference
>> that
>>>>> bounces from continent to continent, more than 1,000 people from
>> around
>>>> the
>>>>> world gather with change on their minds. Their vision of the global
>>>> network
>>>>> that all humanity shares is dynamic, evolving, and continuously
>>>> improving.
>>>>> Their efforts combine with the contributions of myriad others to
>> ensure
>>>>> that the Internet always works but is never done, never complete.
>>>>>
>>>>> The rapid yet orderly evolution of the Internet is all the more
>>>> remarkable
>>>>> considering the highly unusual way it happens: without a company, a
>>>>> government, or a board of directors in charge. Nothing about digital
>>>>> communications technology suggests that it should be self-organizing
>>> or,
>>>>> for that matter, fundamentally reliable. We enjoy an Internet that is
>>>> both
>>>>> of those at once because multiple generations of network developers
>>> have
>>>>> embraced a principle and a process that have been quite rare in the
>>>> history
>>>>> of technology. The principle is that the protocols that govern how
>>>>> Internet-connected devices communicate should be open, expandable,
>> and
>>>>> robust. And the process that invents and refines those protocols
>>> demands
>>>>> collaboration and a large degree of consensus among all who care to
>>>>> participate.
>>>>>
>>>>> As someone who was part of the small team that very deliberately
>>> adopted
>>>> a
>>>>> collaborative, consensus-based process to develop protocols for the
>>>> ARPANET
>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET>?predecessor to the
>> Internet?I
>>>> have
>>>>> been pleasantly surprised by how those ideas have persisted and
>>>> succeeded,
>>>>> even as the physical network has evolved from 50-kilobit-per-second
>>>>> telephone lines in the mid-1960s to the fiber-optic, 5G, and
>> satellite
>>>>> links we enjoy today. Though our team certainly never envisioned
>>>>> unforgeable ?privacy passes
>>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-privacy-pass/>? or unique
>>>> identifiers
>>>>> for Internet-connected drones
>>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/drip/about/>?two proposed
>>> protocols
>>>>> discussed at the task force meeting this past March?we did circulate
>>> our
>>>>> ideas for the ARPANET as technical memos among a far-flung group of
>>>>> computer scientists, collecting feedback and settling on solutions in
>>>> much
>>>>> the same way as today, albeit at a much smaller scale.
>>>>>
>>>>> We called each of those early memos a ?Request for Comments? or RFC.
>>>>> Whatever networked device you use today, it almost certainly follows
>>>> rules
>>>>> laid down in ARPANET RFCs written decades ago, probably including
>>>> protocols
>>>>> for sending plain ASCII text (RFC 20
>>>>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc20.html>, issued in 1969), audio or
>>>> video
>>>>> data streams (RFC 768 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc768.html>,
>>> 1980),
>>>> and
>>>>> Post Office Protocol, or POP, email (RFC 918
>>>>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc918.html>, 1984).
>>>>>
>>>>> *Anatomy of an RFC*...
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/cyberspace/todays-internet-still-relies-on-an-arpanetera-protocol-the-request-for-comments
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 18:16:03 -0400
>>>> From: Vint Cerf <vint at google.com>
>>>> To: Jack Haverty <jack at 3kitty.org>
>>>> Cc: "Nelson H. F. Beebe via Internet-history"
>>>> <internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [ih] Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
>>>> Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <
>>>> CAHxHgge71u5br6S1PAngRRuM6Het9o3wGZi_GdinGcGw6itz5g at mail.gmail.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> early on, the comments came back as RFCs. Then came email so less of
>> the
>>>> conversation was captured in RFCs.
>>>> then came Internet Drafts which highlighted conversation again.
>>>> v
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 6:12 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
>>>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Geoff, interesting article...
>>>>>
>>>>> While the RFC has been enduring, I've always wondered -- where are
>> all
>>>>> the Comments in response to those thousands of RFCs that Requested
>>> them?
>>>>> Is there some "form" site somewhere where each RFC appears when
>>>>> published and has a "Comments" section to collect and preserve the
>>>>> Comments. That kind of thing is pervasive today on all sorts of
>> news
>>>>> sites, blogs, etc. But IMHO the RFCs have somehow always been
>>> ignoring
>>>>> the Cs they Request.
>>>>>
>>>>> I recall writing only several RFCs, but comments typically came back
>>> via
>>>>> email discussions. Sometimes for years. I fear most of that aspect
>>> of
>>>>> Internet History, the comments and discussions, has been lost. I
>>>>> wonder if the long-standing "technology" of RFCs needs a Version 2,
>>>>> which captures and preserves the Comments just as it has done for
>>>>> decades with the Requests.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I should write an RFC about that........
>>>>>
>>>>> /Jack
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/7/20 2:52 PM, the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via
>>> Internet-history
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> *The RFC may be the ARPANET?s most enduring legacy*
>>>>>> EXCERPT:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Each March, July, and November, we are reminded that the Internet
>> is
>>>> not
>>>>>> quite the mature, stable technology that it seems to be. We rely on
>>> the
>>>>>> Internet as an essential tool for our economic, social,
>> educational,
>>>> and
>>>>>> political lives. But when the Internet Engineering Task Force
>>>>>> <https://ietf.org/> meets every four months at an open conference
>>> that
>>>>>> bounces from continent to continent, more than 1,000 people from
>>> around
>>>>> the
>>>>>> world gather with change on their minds. Their vision of the global
>>>>> network
>>>>>> that all humanity shares is dynamic, evolving, and continuously
>>>>> improving.
>>>>>> Their efforts combine with the contributions of myriad others to
>>> ensure
>>>>>> that the Internet always works but is never done, never complete.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The rapid yet orderly evolution of the Internet is all the more
>>>>> remarkable
>>>>>> considering the highly unusual way it happens: without a company, a
>>>>>> government, or a board of directors in charge. Nothing about
>> digital
>>>>>> communications technology suggests that it should be
>> self-organizing
>>>> or,
>>>>>> for that matter, fundamentally reliable. We enjoy an Internet that
>> is
>>>>> both
>>>>>> of those at once because multiple generations of network developers
>>>> have
>>>>>> embraced a principle and a process that have been quite rare in the
>>>>> history
>>>>>> of technology. The principle is that the protocols that govern how
>>>>>> Internet-connected devices communicate should be open, expandable,
>>> and
>>>>>> robust. And the process that invents and refines those protocols
>>>> demands
>>>>>> collaboration and a large degree of consensus among all who care to
>>>>>> participate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As someone who was part of the small team that very deliberately
>>>> adopted
>>>>> a
>>>>>> collaborative, consensus-based process to develop protocols for the
>>>>> ARPANET
>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET>?predecessor to the
>>> Internet?I
>>>>> have
>>>>>> been pleasantly surprised by how those ideas have persisted and
>>>>> succeeded,
>>>>>> even as the physical network has evolved from 50-kilobit-per-second
>>>>>> telephone lines in the mid-1960s to the fiber-optic, 5G, and
>>> satellite
>>>>>> links we enjoy today. Though our team certainly never envisioned
>>>>>> unforgeable ?privacy passes
>>>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-privacy-pass/>? or unique
>>>>> identifiers
>>>>>> for Internet-connected drones
>>>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/drip/about/>?two proposed
>>>> protocols
>>>>>> discussed at the task force meeting this past March?we did
>> circulate
>>>> our
>>>>>> ideas for the ARPANET as technical memos among a far-flung group of
>>>>>> computer scientists, collecting feedback and settling on solutions
>> in
>>>>> much
>>>>>> the same way as today, albeit at a much smaller scale.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We called each of those early memos a ?Request for Comments? or
>> RFC.
>>>>>> Whatever networked device you use today, it almost certainly
>> follows
>>>>> rules
>>>>>> laid down in ARPANET RFCs written decades ago, probably including
>>>>> protocols
>>>>>> for sending plain ASCII text (RFC 20
>>>>>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc20.html>, issued in 1969), audio
>> or
>>>>> video
>>>>>> data streams (RFC 768 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc768.html>,
>>>> 1980),
>>>>> and
>>>>>> Post Office Protocol, or POP, email (RFC 918
>>>>>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc918.html>, 1984).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Anatomy of an RFC*...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/cyberspace/todays-internet-still-relies-on-an-arpanetera-protocol-the-request-for-comments
>>>>> --
>>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> new postal address:
>>>> Google, LLC
>>>> 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, Suite 1400
>>>> Reston, VA 20190
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:40:17 -0700
>>>> From: Dave Crocker <dhc at dcrocker.net>
>>>> To: internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [ih] Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
>>>> Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
>>>> Message-ID: <f01b1abb-e6ca-4505-0e27-c76bb66269c9 at dcrocker.net>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> On 8/7/2020 3:12 PM, Jack Haverty via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>> While the RFC has been enduring, I've always wondered -- where are
>> all
>>>>> the Comments in response to those thousands of RFCs that Requested
>>> them?
>>>>> Is there some "form" site somewhere where each RFC appears when
>>>>> published and has a "Comments" section to collect and preserve the
>>>>> Comments.?? That kind of thing is pervasive today on all sorts of
>> news
>>>>> sites, blogs, etc.?? But IMHO the RFCs have somehow always been
>>> ignoring
>>>>> the Cs they Request.
>>>>
>>>> emails, internet-drafts, web pages, meeting presentations and
>>>> recordings, etc.
>>>>
>>>> There is excellent archiving of the RFCs, but there has been no
>> interest
>>>> historical retention of of the surrounding mass of supporting work
>>>> product. It seems that folk think the usual 'backups' are sufficient...
>>>>
>>>> d/
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dave Crocker
>>>> Brandenburg InternetWorking
>>>> bbiw.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 5
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:49:39 -0700
>>>> From: Dave Crocker <dhc at dcrocker.net>
>>>> Cc: "Nelson H. F. Beebe via Internet-history"
>>>> <internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [ih] Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
>>>> Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
>>>> Message-ID: <e7800b82-30f0-6db2-a738-d26387e02843 at dcrocker.net>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> On 8/7/2020 3:16 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>>>>> then came Internet Drafts which highlighted conversation again.
>>>> Even I-Ds tend to be used in a more formal way, now, making them more
>>>> representative of RFC development snapshots than of comment indicators,
>>>> which are handled in email and meetings.
>>>>
>>>> There is, occasionally, an I-D done as a comment on other work -- with
>>>> no intent for RFC publication -- but that's extremely rare.
>>>>
>>>> d/
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dave Crocker
>>>> Brandenburg InternetWorking
>>>> bbiw.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>>
>>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> End of Internet-history Digest, Vol 11, Issue 2
>>>> ***********************************************
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>>
>> --
>> Internet-history mailing list
>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>
>>
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