[ih] reinventing the wheel, was Internet History Lives on the Internet?

[Miles Fidelman]

One source, multiple destinations, without duplication of traffic.  
Essentially combining what would otherwise be multiple, redundant flows 
into a distribution tree.  That's what IP multicast does, bittorent does 
something similar as an overlay to standard IP.

Miles

On 2/26/19 3:35 PM, Richard Bennett wrote:
> Perhaps you can explain that the term "EFFECTIVELY multicast” means to 
> you, and how it applies to BitTorrent. Every time I’ve looked at it in 
> Wireshark I see nothing but unicast.
>
> RB
>
>> On Feb 26, 2019, at 10:01 AM, Miles Fidelman 
>> <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net <mailto:mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Well, that's not how it's supposed to work. Or claimed to work.
>>
>> On 2/25/19 8:27 PM, Richard Bennett wrote:
>>> Naw, it’s all unicast with plenty of redundant traffic moving along 
>>> long routes.
>>>
>>>> On Feb 25, 2019, at 5:49 PM, Miles Fidelman 
>>>> <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net <mailto:mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That's not what anybody said. It's EFFECTIVELY multicast - avoiding 
>>>> redundant traffic when more than one destination is downloading the 
>>>> same file, at the same time.  That's its whole point.  (Or as 
>>>> someone else put it, it's a caching mechanism.)
>>>>
>>>> Miles
>>>>
>>>> On 2/25/19 4:24 PM, Richard Bennett wrote:
>>>>> Bittorrent doesn’t use multicast.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Miles Fidelman 
>>>>>> <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net <mailto:mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well yes, but torrent is a distribution mechanism - it's not an 
>>>>>> infrastructure for maintaining or mirroring files. It's 
>>>>>> essentially another, sometimes more efficient, option for 
>>>>>> click-to-download (e.g., ftp, http, bittorrent).  And it's only 
>>>>>> more efficient if multiple people are downloading at the same time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Miles
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/25/19 12:28 PM, Richard Bennett wrote:
>>>>>>> No, Bittorrent uses DHTs and accesses as many copies of a given 
>>>>>>> file as users choose to share. It has to be running to serve 
>>>>>>> files, however.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Miles Fidelman 
>>>>>>>> <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net 
>>>>>>>> <mailto:mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/24/19 9:53 PM, John Levine wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's what I find intriguing about my Benevolent BotNet 
>>>>>>>>>> notion.  Rather
>>>>>>>>>> than depending on finding an institution interested in, 
>>>>>>>>>> competent at,
>>>>>>>>>> and willing to save history, and hoping that it has 
>>>>>>>>>> longevity, you rely
>>>>>>>>>> on a network of volunteers to provide that survivable 
>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure by
>>>>>>>>>> volunteering their excess computing resources.
>>>>>>>>> Hi again.  Please look at Bittorrent and tell us how it is 
>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>> from what you're proposing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bittorrent has the advantage of already existing and being 
>>>>>>>>> deployed
>>>>>>>>> all over the world.  It's notorious for pirated music but it's 
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> widely used for sharing linux distributions and the like.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bit torrent is transient.  It's more like an ad-hoc multi-cast
>>>>>>>> streaming.  When nobody is downloading, there may be only one 
>>>>>>>> copy of
>>>>>>>> the file.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now gnutella, and some of the other P2P file sharing systems - 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> replicate copies, or distribute files across a distributed hash 
>>>>>>>> table -
>>>>>>>> that's another story entirely.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>>>>>>>> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______
>>>>>>>> internet-history mailing list
>>>>>>>> internet-history at postel.org <mailto:internet-history at postel.org>
>>>>>>>> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>>>>>>> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> —
>>>>>>> Richard Bennett
>>>>>>> High Tech Forum <http://hightechforum.org/> Founder
>>>>>>> Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Internet Policy Consultant
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>>>>>> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>>>>>
>>>>> —
>>>>> Richard Bennett
>>>>> High Tech Forum <http://hightechforum.org/> Founder
>>>>> Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator
>>>>>
>>>>> Internet Policy Consultant
>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>>>> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>>>> _______
>>>> internet-history mailing list
>>>> internet-history at postel.org <mailto:internet-history at postel.org>
>>>> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>>> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
>>>
>>> —
>>> Richard Bennett
>>> High Tech Forum <http://hightechforum.org/> Founder
>>> Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator
>>>
>>> Internet Policy Consultant
>>>
>> -- 
>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>> _______
>> internet-history mailing list
>> internet-history at postel.org <mailto:internet-history at postel.org>
>> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
>
> —
> Richard Bennett
> High Tech Forum <http://hightechforum.org> Founder
> Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator
>
> Internet Policy Consultant
>
-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

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