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<p>One source, multiple destinations, without duplication of
traffic. Essentially combining what would otherwise be multiple,
redundant flows into a distribution tree. That's what IP
multicast does, bittorent does something similar as an overlay to
standard IP. <br>
</p>
<p>Miles<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/26/19 3:35 PM, Richard Bennett
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:E65FC89D-F49B-4BD2-9952-C79F57D8C8A8@bennett.com">
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Perhaps you can explain that the term "EFFECTIVELY multicast”
means to you, and how it applies to BitTorrent. Every time I’ve
looked at it in Wireshark I see nothing but unicast.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">RB<br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 26, 2019, at 10:01 AM, Miles Fidelman
<<a href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
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charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
<p class="">Well, that's not how it's supposed to work.
Or claimed to work.<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/25/19 8:27 PM, Richard
Bennett wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DF2F5D32-F5E7-4012-86EE-AD5C6FBD6384@bennett.com"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
Naw, it’s all unicast with plenty of redundant traffic
moving along long routes. <br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 25, 2019, at 5:49 PM, Miles
Fidelman <<a
href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
<p class="">That's not what anybody said.
It's EFFECTIVELY multicast - avoiding
redundant traffic when more than one
destination is downloading the same file, at
the same time. That's its whole point. (Or
as someone else put it, it's a caching
mechanism.)<br class="">
</p>
<p class="">Miles<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/25/19 4:24
PM, Richard Bennett wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:05BFAD28-1DCF-49D5-8B09-EF32ADB33FF1@bennett.com"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
class="">
Bittorrent doesn’t use multicast.<br
class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 25, 2019, at 1:42
PM, Miles Fidelman <<a
href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
class="">
<p class="">Well yes, but torrent is
a distribution mechanism - it's
not an infrastructure for
maintaining or mirroring files.
It's essentially another,
sometimes more efficient, option
for click-to-download (e.g., ftp,
http, bittorrent). And it's only
more efficient if multiple people
are downloading at the same time.</p>
<p class="">Miles<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
2/25/19 12:28 PM, Richard Bennett
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:D7B46270-AD5E-4BD4-9ACD-41760F700AFE@bennett.com"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
No, Bittorrent uses DHTs and
accesses as many copies of a given
file as users choose to share. It
has to be running to serve files,
however.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">RB<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">On Feb 25,
2019, at 9:59 AM, Miles
Fidelman <<a
href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">On 2/24/19
9:53 PM, John Levine
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<blockquote
type="cite" class="">That's
what I find
intriguing about my
Benevolent BotNet
notion. Rather<br
class="">
than depending on
finding an
institution
interested in,
competent at,<br
class="">
and willing to save
history, and hoping
that it has
longevity, you rely<br
class="">
on a network of
volunteers to
provide that
survivable
infrastructure by<br
class="">
volunteering their
excess computing
resources.<br
class="">
</blockquote>
Hi again. Please look
at Bittorrent and tell
us how it is different<br
class="">
from what you're
proposing.<br class="">
<br class="">
Bittorrent has the
advantage of already
existing and being
deployed<br class="">
all over the world.
It's notorious for
pirated music but it's
also<br class="">
widely used for
sharing linux
distributions and the
like.<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
Bit torrent is
transient. It's more
like an ad-hoc
multi-cast <br class="">
streaming. When nobody
is downloading, there
may be only one copy of
<br class="">
the file.<br class="">
<br class="">
Now gnutella, and some
of the other P2P file
sharing systems - that <br
class="">
replicate copies, or
distribute files across
a distributed hash table
- <br class="">
that's another story
entirely.<br class="">
<br class="">
-- <br class="">
In theory, there is no
difference between
theory and practice.<br
class="">
In practice, there is.
.... Yogi Berra<br
class="">
<br class="">
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class="">—<br class="">
<div style="word-wrap:
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class="">Richard Bennett<br
class="">
<a
href="http://hightechforum.org/"
class=""
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Tech Forum</a> Founder</div>
<div style="word-wrap:
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class="">Ethernet &
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class="">Internet Policy
Consultant</div>
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<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra</pre>
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</blockquote>
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<br class="">
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class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
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Bennett<br class="">
<a href="http://hightechforum.org/"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">High
Tech Forum</a> Founder</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
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& Wi-Fi standards co-creator</div>
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class="">
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Policy Consultant</div>
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<br class="">
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra</pre>
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">Richard Bennett<br
class="">
<a href="http://hightechforum.org/" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">High Tech Forum</a> Founder</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">Ethernet &
Wi-Fi standards co-creator</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">Internet Policy
Consultant</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra</pre>
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class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Richard
Bennett<br class="">
<a href="http://hightechforum.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">High Tech Forum</a> Founder</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Ethernet
& Wi-Fi standards co-creator</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Internet
Policy Consultant</div>
</div>
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</div>
<br class="">
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</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra</pre>
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