[ih] When did "32" bits for IP register as "not enough"?

Mon Feb 18 22:02:14 PST 2019

For a good description of OSI/TCP in Europe, see the travel log in the book by Carl Malamud.

It starts with Dublin on page 90 <https://books.google.se/books?id=YDnbAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PR3&pg=PA83#v=onepage&q&f=false> and then continues with Amsterdam which is the really really interesting part. Explains a lot of the situation.

Another person to talk with is Bernhard Stockman, the first non-US Area Director of the IETF and instrumental to among other things get the IETF to Stockholm 1995.

The most famous quote is in the book from Carl Malamud is from when Bernard kicked off large scale TCP/IP in Europe by stating:

"I will take everything you contribute and turn it into something that works."

And that was basically what we in Scandinavia promised when we from mid-1980 promised "things that worked" and pushed the IP stack of protocols in parallel with others pushing the OSI stack, including X.400 until the Y2k projects ultimately killed them.

   Patrik

On 19 Feb 2019, at 2:15, Richard Bennett wrote:

> ISO/OSI was backed by the Commerce Department, but TCP was the darling of the Defense Department.
>
> RB
>
>> On Feb 18, 2019, at 5:26 PM, Scott O. Bradner <sob at sobco.com> wrote:
>>
>> agree - it did not get much - even with Marshall’s book behind it - maybe big companies were not comfortable in betting their
>> future on small-company code - but that is just a guess
>>
>> one thing different about what Dennis was trying to do - he would have had a government-blessed implementation
>> which would allow the governments that were pushing OSI (like the US) something to point at to justify their
>> regulations
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 18, 2019, at 7:07 PM, Clem cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Scott    Point taken but what about Marshall Rose’s ISODE: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_Development_Environment
>>>
>>> It was available but never got any traction as far as I can tell.
>>>
>>> Clem
>>>
>>> Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite.
>>>
>>> On Feb 18, 2019, at 6:26 PM, Scott O. Bradner <sob at sobco.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dennis Jennings tells a story relating to this topic - he said that he was involved in an effort to get a set of OSI code
>>>> produced & released along the same line as the Berkeley TCP/IP code but at the very last minute the vendor that
>>>> was going to provide the code, one that sold OSI code to vendors, backed out because they thought it would
>>>> be bad for their business model - the discussion might have been different if Dennis had succeeded, instead
>>>> that vendor’s business died along with the OSI protocols
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 18, 2019, at 5:06 PM, Dave Crocker <dhc at dcrocker.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On February 18, 2019 11:42:12 AM PST, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 5:58 PM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> They, like many other companies, had been told by many officials
>>>>> in the USA and Europe (and a bit later in Asia) that OSI would be
>>>>> a government procurement requirement. That triggered a lot of
>>>>> investment in product development.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Open_Systems_Interconnection_Profile
>>>>>
>>>>> Plus large manufacturing firms such as GM and Boeing were drinking the coolaid with their MAP/TOP push
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Automation_Protocol which was OSI based (plus those folks did not believe in Ethernet - they were sure it would not work on a manufacturing floor).
>>>>>
>>>>> But as I said, economics won out.     The HW they promoted was just too expensive and the SW never really matured.   As others pointed out, the cost of an OSI implementation was huge.    Even teleco standards like X.25 ended up not being worth it.  Just not enough people bought them to make it so it was worth it.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the end, MAP/GOSIP et al went away - because why would you guy something that cost more and in the end, did less?
>>>>> ᐧ
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest that what won out was usability in the large and in the small. The Internet supplied an actual and large installed base of connected users. OSI really never did. And the Iinternet tools were useul and reasonably easy to use. The OSI tools were not.
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Dave Crocker
>>>>> bbiw.net
>>>>>
>>>>> via phone
>>>>> _______
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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>
> —
> Richard Bennett
> High Tech Forum <http://hightechforum.org/> Founder
> Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator
>
> Internet Policy Consultant
>
>
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