[ih] .UK vs .GB
John Demco
demco at webnames.ca
Mon Apr 16 00:50:36 PDT 2018
Steve Kille’s X.400 software was called PP, if I recall correctly. The EAN software came from a team led by Gerald Neufeld at the University of British Columbia.
Regards,
John Demco
(formerly at UBC)
> On Apr 15, 2018, at 22:30, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes. At CERN we were gatewaying email between DECNET, "ARPANET", Grey Book,
> EUNET (aka USENET), RSCS (aka EARN aka BITNET), and of course a little
> X.400 (using Steve Kille's EAN).
>
> Here's how we believed an "ARPA" user would send mail to a CERN user in 1987:
> user%host%cernvax.bitnet at wiscvm.wisc.edu
>
> (Non-paywall preprint of the paper: http://cds.cern.ch/record/182913/files/ )
>
> Brian
>
>
>> On 16/04/2018 08:44, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
>> Dear Vint,
>>
>> the dates are indeed similar.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured_Book_protocols
>>
>> They were indeed contemporary. And when I used them on DEC VAX, the
>> address was something of the like: CBS%UK.AC.KCL.CC.ELM::ZDEE699 --
>> which would be ZDEE699 at UK.AC.KCL.CC.ELM
>> (my then email address :-) )
>> To send to an Internet address: (you for example)
>> CBS%UK.AC.NSFNET-RELAY::us.va.reston.cnri::vcerf
>>
>> Sending to an X.400, one had to start with:
>> CBS%UK.AC.MHS-RELAY::
>> with the rest in quotes. Often the parser in the return made an absolute
>> mess with X.400 sourced emails.
>>
>> Also, note that CBS also accepted bang! paths, but the difference
>> between the % and @ delimiters in specifically routed emails for
>> example, vcerf%cnri.reston.va.us at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk didn't exist, thus
>> it was :: all the way.
>>
>> Kindest regards,
>>
>> Olivier
>>
>> ps. the "transition" came when one ran TCP-IP over X.25.
>>
>>> On 15/04/2018 21:03, Vint Cerf wrote:
>>> does anyone on the list recall the rough dates for the "Colored Book
>>> Protocol" ? Seems possible that these were at least contemporary with
>>> DNS and UCL was confronted with the need to translate between those
>>> and the ARPANET and/or Internet protocols of the time.
>>>
>>> v
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Eric Gade <eric.gade at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:eric.gade at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Also worth noting that in a May 1984 draft of RFC 920 (and a few
>>> drafts prior to this going back to April), ISO-3166 was *not*
>>> specified as a set for potential TLDs, but .UK *was* given as an
>>> example. In fact, the inclusion of UK was used by many
>>> participants discussing the draft to argue in favor of both a
>>> country-based set of TLDs and a more generic set (note that these
>>> early drafts used .PUB and .COR instead of .COM and .ORG). It was
>>> sometime between May and July that the ISO list was proposed as
>>> the ccTLD set.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:02 AM, John Klensin <jklensin at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:jklensin at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, Nigel, I should (for several reasons) have remembered that
>>> comment in RFC 920, but my recollection is still consistent
>>> with that
>>> document and your list. That timeline list is, IMO, extremely
>>> useful
>>> and far more accessible (and, IIR, comprehensive) that the Park
>>> dissertation.
>>>
>>> john
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Nigel Roberts
>>> <nigel at channelisles.net <mailto:nigel at channelisles.net>> wrote:
>>>> Far be it from me to be seen to clarify John's first hand
>>> knowledge of
>>>> RFC 1591, but it's worth pointing out that the decision to use
>>>> ISO-3166-1 was not first documented in RFC 1591, but already
>>> in RFC 920
>>>> (October 1984) as follows
>>>>
>>>>> Countries
>>>>>
>>>>> The English two letter code (alpha-2) identifying a country
>>> according the the ISO Standard for "Codes for the
>>> Representation of Names of Countries" [5].
>>>>>
>>>>> As yet no country domains have been established. As they
>>> are established information about the administrators and
>>> agents will be made public, and will be listed in subsequent
>>> editions of this memo."
>>>>
>>>> Stephen Deerhake and I put together an (as yet unfinished)
>>> hyperlinked
>>>> timeline of the DNS quite recently. Even though there are
>>> some places
>>>> where the editing is still a little rough, I think there is
>>> some useful
>>>> stuff which is not easily accessible otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> You can find it at http://timeline.as
>>>>
>>>> It does need a little work, and we need to move it from
>>> using TikiWiki
>>>> (which seemed like a good idea at the time) to something
>>> faster, but
>>>> there are some interesting things there...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 04/15/2018 02:13 PM, John Klensin wrote:
>>>>>> The only explanation I got orally was that "GB stands for
>>> Great Britain, while UK stands for United Kingdom of Great
>>> Britain and the Northern Ireland".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was enough for me. Don't even remember who explained
>>> it, but it was around the famous entry of .CS into the root
>>> zone that created the "interesting" situation with
>>> CS.BERKELEY.EDU <http://CS.BERKELEY.EDU> (and others) and
>>> massive weird extra hacking in sendmail.cf
>>> <http://sendmail.cf> due to the Janet "reverse" order of
>>> labels in a domain name.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me try an even less complicated one, based on what I
>>> was told when
>>>>> we were evaluating what became the decision to use ISO 3166
>>> alpha-2
>>>>> codes: The country code system started because of a
>>> request from the
>>>>> UK to be able to manage their own DNS hierarchy rather than
>>> depending
>>>>> on a US-based organization to manage the TLD. The ccTLDs
>>> are US and
>>>>> UK were decided upon (and possibly delegated) before other
>>>>> administrative decisions about ccTLDs were made and "UK"
>>> was what they
>>>>> asked for.
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW: (1) While RFC 1591 was not published until 1994, it,
>>> for the
>>>>> most part, described thinking and procedures that had had
>>> been in
>>>>> place for years rather than anything of significant that
>>> was novel.
>>>>> (2) YJ Park, whom some of you may know, tried to sort
>>> though all of
>>>>> these issues and history while working on her
>>> dissertation. The
>>>>> search for answers to questions of this type might
>>> reasonably start
>>>>> with her and that dissertation. That should lead to some
>>> context and
>>>>> references even where she does not have exact answers.
>>>>>
>>>>> john
>>>>>
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>>> Eric
>>>
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>>
>>
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