[ih] internet-history Digest, Vol 37, Issue 1

[Vint Cerf]

i asked him in an email.

v

On Nov 6, 2009, at 1:23 AM, Richard Bennett wrote:

> There were a few tables for companies to pitch their wares, as I  
> recall. Dan Lynch would know, of course.
>
> RB
>
> Vint Cerf wrote:
>> i thought the first meeting was 1986 and was just lectures by  
>> Internet geeks?
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Jack Haverty wrote:
>>
>>> I just found my souvenir plastic pocket protector - "TCP/IP '87  
>>> Geeks on
>>> the Bay in Monterey".  I think this was probably just before the  
>>> name
>>> "Interop" appeared, but it was arguably the first Interop  
>>> conference.
>>> The first name was "Advanced Computing Environments" (on my ceramic
>>> souvenir tile.)
>>>
>>> I wonder what else is down in this drawer....  /Jack
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 18:34 -0500, Vint Cerf wrote:
>>>> oh, duh, that can't be right (Interop wasn't born until about  
>>>> 1986 was
>>>> it?).
>>>>
>>>> so I guess I don't know where that pin came from.
>>>>
>>>> v
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 2, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jack Haverty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is like the arguments about when life begins - lots of  
>>>>> different
>>>>> opinions...
>>>>>
>>>>> I like Bob's milestone - the Internet came to life when its  
>>>>> technology
>>>>> (i.e., the TCP technology that enabled the "inter" aspect of  
>>>>> Internet)
>>>>> was adopted for operational use and there was no going back.
>>>>> Everything
>>>>> before that was prenatal, part of a lengthy R&D gestation.  Much  
>>>>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>> Arpanet software "DNA" carried over to the Internet algorithms.   
>>>>> But
>>>>> 1/1/1983 seems like a good date for when the Internet was "born".
>>>>>
>>>>> Subsequently, the offspring Internet consumed its mother Arpanet,
>>>>> which
>>>>> disappeared totally - as happens in the animal kingdom.  But of
>>>>> course,
>>>>> opinions may differ.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the time, the "Arpanet people" didn't think they were  
>>>>> creating an
>>>>> Internet.  In fact, as I remember, the Internet was somewhat of an
>>>>> annoyance, since it significantly altered the traffic patterns  
>>>>> which
>>>>> the
>>>>> Arpanet internal algorithms were optimized to handle and caused
>>>>> operational problems as a result.  Those "gateways" (now called
>>>>> routers)
>>>>> just acted weird, unlike normal well-behaved hosts.  The Arpanet  
>>>>> R&D
>>>>> was
>>>>> intently focused on making the network bigger and better,  
>>>>> converting
>>>>> to
>>>>> the X.25 interface, deploying clone networks for anyone who wanted
>>>>> one,
>>>>> and in general evolving and commercializing the Arpanet  
>>>>> technology.
>>>>>
>>>>> The government had to mandate the transition to TCP in order to  
>>>>> make
>>>>> it
>>>>> possible to communicate across several networks - the "inter" in
>>>>> Internet.  Without the mandate, I doubt it would have  
>>>>> happened.   Our
>>>>> "Internet" today would probably be a gaggle of X.25 networks
>>>>> interconnected by X.75 gateways - that was certainly the plan.   
>>>>> The
>>>>> economics and performance of X.25/X.75 would probably never have
>>>>> permitted the creation of the Web, or any of the other "killer  
>>>>> apps"
>>>>> that we now use everyday.  Packet-switching may have changed the
>>>>> economics of using long lines, but I think the "Internet  
>>>>> economics"
>>>>> changed the cost structure on data comm dramatically, and that's  
>>>>> what
>>>>> enabled the explosion of growth of "The Internet" from the  
>>>>> mid-90s on.
>>>>> If the Arpanet had had its way, today's Internet, if it existed at
>>>>> all,
>>>>> would be X.25/X.75.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, my perspective is that the Arpanet was not the fledgling
>>>>> Internet -
>>>>> the Arpanet reluctantly nurtured the Internet, and eventually died
>>>>> as a
>>>>> result.  Once TCP was required, the Arpanet was doomed; it took  
>>>>> only a
>>>>> few years.  I wonder if there are any Arpanet-style X.25 networks
>>>>> left...
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a big red button that says "I Survived the TCP Transition
>>>>> 1/1/83".  They were handed out to commemorate the cutover, but I  
>>>>> don't
>>>>> remember exactly where I got it.  Sounds like something Jon Postel
>>>>> would
>>>>> have done though.  Anybody else have one?
>>>>>
>>>>> /Jack Haverty
>>>>> Point Arena, CA
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 12:20 -0800, Bob Braden wrote:
>>>>>> Noel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And speaking of the Internet as a distinct entity, whats it's
>>>>>> birth-day
>>>>>>> anyway? I would call it the first day on which a packet was sent
>>>>>>> from one
>>>>>>> host, across a particular kind of network, through a router (or
>>>>>> gateway as we
>>>>>>> called them back then), across another network, into another  
>>>>>>> host.
>>>>>> (That woul
>>>>>>> d
>>>>>>> have been a TCP packet, I guess - no IP back then!) So where and
>>>>>>> when was
>>>>>>> that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the time, we reckoned the beginning of the Internet to be  
>>>>>> the Red
>>>>>> Flag day when the ARPAnet converted from NCP to TCP/IP: Jan 1,  
>>>>>> 1983.
>>>>>> I think someone has an "I survived..." sweatshirt to commemorate
>>>>>> that date.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob Braden
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Richard Bennett
> Research Fellow
> Information Technology and Innovation Foundation
> Washington, DC
>