[Chapter-delegates] Chapter advice on live streaming

Mon Feb 3 13:50:05 PST 2025

Jolly, I am very disappointed with how all this is being "managed" I must
say, Thank YOU for YOUR extraordinary service to us in volunteer/Chapter
land for so many years in this actually quite demanding area. and **HUGE
SIGH**

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Cheryl Langdon-Orr
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On Tue, 4 Feb 2025 at 08:04, Joly MacFie via Chapter-delegates <
chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> Thank you for your support!
>
> ISOC Zambia does great work.
>
> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 3:43 PM levy syanseke <lsyanseke at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This is a hard read.
>> Thanks Joly, for your hard work and commitment to the Internet Society.
>>
>> I do hope recognition of your work goes beyond word to probably being
>> rewarded, especially following the new channel with most of your work and
>> you havent been consulted or engaged.
>>
>> I wish you well. I do remember our first work when the chapter was
>> launched, your work is indeed great.
>>
>> I wish you well once again.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Levy Syanseke
>>
>> Media Studies Tutor | Ramah Designs
>> <https://web.facebook.com/ramahdesigns/> - Founder
>>
>> Internet Society Zambia Chapter <https://isoczambia.org> - Founding
>> president
>>
>> Youth IGF Movement <https://youthigf.com/>- Community Coordinator
>> +260 978 210 494 <+260+978+210+494>
>> lsyanseke at gmail.com
>>
>> <https://ramahdesigns.business.site/>
>>  God Loves You!
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 9:11 PM Joly MacFie via Chapter-delegates <
>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a further update on this issue i.e. the preservation of the
>>> Livestream.com archive.
>>>
>>> As you may recall ISOC Foundation rejected ISOC-NY's small grant request
>>> for $1200 expenses on the basis "*the total number of requests we
>>> receive exceed the amount of funding we have available and we must select
>>> projects most closely aligned to the goals of our Foundation*."
>>>
>>> Faced with the prospect of 1000+ ISOC events disappearing into the
>>> ether, in the last weeks of November I dug into my personal savings, and
>>> went ahead on my own. It turned out that a) scraping was a little more
>>> complicated than I had thought, and b) there was mode data than I had
>>> imagined  so that I ended up needing 3 drives. The total expenses were $
>>> 1670.94
>>>
>>> The scraping process took a over two weeks. ISOC's 3 accounts were due
>>> to expire in the second week of December, and it was a race against time to
>>> bring in all the data.  As it turned out, only Channel 3 was immediately
>>> deleted. Fortunately we just got it all in time.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile the Internet Archive itself was having issues. It had been
>>> hacked and access was severely limited. They had their hands full.  The
>>> task remained (and remains) to reshape the raw JSON metadata into something
>>> that their system can ingest.
>>>
>>> But at least everything was safe. The idea was proposed, and informally
>>> discussed, with Chris Locke, that ISOC Foundation could be approached to
>>> cover my outlay and the further processing cost.
>>>
>>> And that was where it stood, until this week, when to my total surprise,
>>> it was revealed that ISOC had opened it's own YouTube Channel '*Internet
>>> Society On-Deman*d <https://www.youtube.com/@InternetSocietyOnDemand>'
>>> in August, and by some method, either scraping or via Vimeo, itself
>>> collected and posted 5.1k videos from Livestream! It posits itself : " Watch
>>> past Internet Society streamed and recorded events and videos all in one
>>> place. " Written by someone with a sense of humour, obviously!
>>>
>>> Every single one of these videos is my work.Was I consulted/informed at
>>> any point? No. Were even other ISOC people who might have told me informed?
>>> Were Chapter  Leaders informed? No. Were Chapter Trustees informed? No. No.
>>>
>>> Was someone else paid a good deal of money to do this? Probably.
>>>
>>> How I discovered this at all is because when, earlier in the week, the
>>> Cybersecurity SIG had requested funding to have me livestream a forthcoming
>>> event, they were told, we have our own channel now, why do you need Joly at
>>> all?l
>>>
>>> If a SIG or chapter wants to record their event via Zoom, they can send
>>>> it to us and we will post it on our Internet Society on Demand YouTube
>>>> page, https://www.youtube.com/@InternetSocietyOnDemand
>>>> If you require live streaming  (not sure how this differs
>>>> from leveraging your current Zoom account and inviting members to join.),
>>>> please provide a document with rationale, benefit, and associated costs for
>>>> Joly's services and we can apply through the external contractor process.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, as Chapters/SIGS I work with know there are several things ISOC LIVE
>>> does beyond just reposting Zooms, e.g. co-promoting their events,
>>> recompositing the streams live, simulcasting (including to regional FB
>>> pages before they removed my access) , editing the recordings, making and
>>> correcting transcripts etc etc.  It shou;d be easy enough to ,ale a quick
>>> Statement of Work for that stuff. We'll see the response.
>>>
>>> But SIGs are a special case,.Unlike Chapters that are chartered
>>> entities, SIGS are internal projects and funded internally. I suspect that
>>> any Chapter looking for similar funding will be referred to the BTN Small
>>> Grants process (wherever it reappears) with its 8 week run up etc.  As I
>>> have said before, this is basically a non-starter, since in all my days
>>> I've rarely if ever had more than a few days notice of a Chapter
>>> livestream. Nevertheless, a draft Statement of Work will be created that
>>> Chapters can use for this purpose.
>>>
>>> In the bigger picture the way this has been done is just another example
>>> of ISOC Staff imposing top-down solutions, but, in this case,
>>> underhandedly, in the face of vociferous advocacy from the community.
>>>
>>> My feeling on this is that Chapters should act collectively to take
>>> control of their media output, say a Chapters Media Council or similar,
>>> that, given ISOC's failings in this area, both in vision and practice,
>>> could take over ISOC LIVE, and contract me, or someone else, to keep up the
>>> work.
>>>
>>> This I suspect would also satisfy ISOC Comms, who plainly want to
>>> maintain a clear distinction between Chapters output and that of ISOC
>>> itself, in order to focus their messaging. They have never promoted the
>>> livestreaming (with the notable exception of the PIR fiasco).
>>>
>>> Joly
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 1:50 PM Caleb Ogundele via Chapter-delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> *Speaking in my personal capacity.*
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks, Charles you for sharing your thoughts, which resonate with
>>>> some of my own reflections. I have been following this conversation
>>>> closely, and while I may have a different perspective on certain comments
>>>> made by a few other persons  in this thread, I want to emphasize that ISOC
>>>> is community-driven and community-powered. Engaging in discussions like
>>>> this makes us better, as we can all learn from one another and work towards
>>>> earning each other’s trust.
>>>>
>>>> For the record, I support open engagement that enhances our Chapter,
>>>> even though my fiduciary duty at this point is to ISOC.org, which limits
>>>> the extent of my engagement as a member of ISOC's Board of Trustees.
>>>> However, I will always advocate that community comes first, and ISOC is no
>>>> exception in the multistakeholder approach we have all championed. As an
>>>> African proverb states, “It takes a whole village to raise a child.” For
>>>> ISOC to become what we all envision in that child I see in that proverb, it
>>>> must always be driven by engagement within our community.
>>>>
>>>> I want to express my gratitude to all the community members who have
>>>> relentlessly engaged on this topic. I believe that the concerned
>>>> individuals in this thread are listening, and listening is a key component
>>>> of accountability. I am optimistic that taking the right steps to earn the
>>>> community's trust and needs is important and I hope this issue will soon be
>>>> resolved.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> *Caleb Ogundele*
>>>> Chapter Elected,
>>>> ISOC Board of Trustees Member
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 3:07 AM Charles Mok (gmail) via
>>>> Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Eduardo.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eduardo you are right that chapters and our members form an important
>>>>> part of who ISOC is. In "About Us" on our website, you see we prominently
>>>>> mentioned "128,265" Members, "131" chapters and SIGs, and 84 OMs. This is
>>>>> by no means to compare which is/are more important, but it is also fair to
>>>>> say that without chapters, we will become more like a trade or industry
>>>>> consortium, which is clearly not what ISOC wants to be seen as.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I also want to go back to the points that Barry talked about.
>>>>> (Following Barry's lead, I also say here for the record that I am a trustee
>>>>> elected by chapters.)
>>>>>
>>>>> The point that Barry (and Luis) reiterated that "once any of us
>>>>> becomes a trustee we are not representing the community that put us here:
>>>>> we are representing the Internet Society itself and acting in the
>>>>> interest of the Society as a whole" is true. But, to me, this is more about
>>>>> how the communities (including chapters, their leaders and members) should
>>>>> perceive the trustees, more than binding what they trustees should "care
>>>>> about." It is true that it is common that chapters may have the "wrong
>>>>> perception" that their elected trustees "represent" them, or possibly also
>>>>> the same perception exists for some in the OM or IETF communities too. But
>>>>> that has more to do with the constituents' perception and hence
>>>>> expectation, more than what it should limit what the trustees can or should
>>>>> do. In fact, it shouldn't. As a trustee, I believe we can still advocate
>>>>> for chapters, oir OMs, or IETF, or anyone else. The fortunate part of it is
>>>>> that there shouldn't be a "zero sum" scenario among ISOC constituents and
>>>>> the Internet communities as a whole. After all, in virtually all
>>>>> situations, I strongly believe what is good for the chapters as a whole
>>>>> should be good for the other communities, and vice versa. Even what's good
>>>>> for the OM community "as a whole" (not individual company members) should
>>>>> be good for chapters and the whole Internet community too. So why not? Even
>>>>> when we talk about this case about live streaming, those in the OM or IETF
>>>>> communities can listen to and benefit from it, and I am sure some do too,
>>>>> right? So, I choose to advocate for any or all of them as appropriate for
>>>>> the matter, rather than avoiding any one (or all) of them, including the
>>>>> constituent that just happens to have elected me to the board.
>>>>>
>>>>> And about the point that the board should not interfere with
>>>>> management actions, I agree too that is proper. The board should not
>>>>> micromanage the executive management. But that does not mean that the board
>>>>> must collectively agree with or defend any (past or present) management
>>>>> decision either. Otherwise, it may be the management micromanaging the
>>>>> minds of individual board trustees :) That would not be a nice thing :)  Of
>>>>> course, due to confidentiality, trustees (and management too) should not
>>>>> discuss the details of the proceedings in the board. But, that should not
>>>>> be necessarily construed as that the board collectively agrees completely
>>>>> and without any reservation with any or management decisions, the kind of
>>>>> thing that we just said the board cannot interfere with in the first place.
>>>>> So, there may be some management decisions that some trustees may choose
>>>>> not to defend.
>>>>>
>>>>> As Barry well said, "management has to have the freedom and
>>>>> flexibility to handle day-to-day operations as it sees appropriate, within
>>>>> the strategic plan that we worked with them to
>>>>> create." It should and can also have the freedom and flexibility to
>>>>> change course and make revisions to policies or executive decisions based
>>>>> on new information, feedback received from the communities, and plainly
>>>>> learning to fix something that did not work very well.
>>>>>
>>>>> There have been a lot of useful discussions here. It is unfortunate
>>>>> that the past decision has got us to this point. For that, as they say, it
>>>>> is what it is, or, it was what it was. Looking to the future, I think we
>>>>> can move on, and it seems pretty clear that there are ways (including some
>>>>> discussed in the thread here) that can lead to a better outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 2:45 PM Eduardo Diaz via Chapter-delegates <
>>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Barry,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate your insights regarding the responsibilities of the
>>>>>> Board of Trustees for the entire Internet Society. However, it is crucial
>>>>>> to recognize that most of the Internet Society's composition consists of
>>>>>> its chapters. The ISOC chapters serve as the organization's foundation;
>>>>>> without them, ISOC would face considerable challenges in effectively
>>>>>> communicating its message. With approximately 128,000 members, the chapters
>>>>>> are essential in mobilizing and engaging the broader community. When
>>>>>> individuals join a chapter, they become ISOC global members before
>>>>>> selecting their preferred chapter, emphasizing the chapters' importance in
>>>>>> representing the entire ISOC community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Chapter Advisory Council (ChAC) was established in the ISOC
>>>>>> bylaws to ensure a unified voice for all chapters, allowing them to present
>>>>>> issues pertinent to their members. Consequently, when the Board receives
>>>>>> formal advice from the ChAC, it should be regarded as a collective
>>>>>> perspective from its chapters. Given that the Board does not engage in
>>>>>> operational matters, it would have been prudent to thoroughly review the
>>>>>> ISOC strategic documents to identify areas where the functionality
>>>>>> explicitly requested by the chapters could be integrated into the strategy
>>>>>> and then request the ISOC CEO to implement it. I believe this consideration
>>>>>> needed to be adequately addressed by all the trustees, particularly given
>>>>>> the informal way it was discussed. The Board's request to present this
>>>>>> issue to the staff has been interpreted as a lack of concern for the
>>>>>> chapters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, I would like to ask whether the trustees are willing to consider
>>>>>> a bylaw change that would allow the ChAC to send formal advice to the ISOC
>>>>>> CEO regarding matters deemed operational. Absent such a change, staff may
>>>>>> overlook valuable advice, resulting in a lack of incentive for them to
>>>>>> respond or take official action, and the chapters will have no other avenue
>>>>>> to voice these concerns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just an ISOC member
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 10:51 AM Barry Leiba via Chapter-delegates <
>>>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm responding to something in Luis's note, but it's not really a
>>>>>>> response to Luis -- it's a clarification of what the roles are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >  Our BOT elected members (and of course, IETF and OMAC ones if
>>>>>>> isolated) are a minority in the Board
>>>>>>> > and they are promptly remembered that they are not representing a
>>>>>>> sector but the Internet Society as a
>>>>>>> > whole, as written in the legal framework.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the record: I'm a trustee who was elected by the Organization
>>>>>>> Members.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First, on the "minority" point, I want to highlight that the
>>>>>>> Organization Members used to select half the board, six members.
>>>>>>> Three each were selected by the Chapters and by the Standards
>>>>>>> Community (the IETF, trustees appointed by the IAB).  This change
>>>>>>> around ten years ago to the current balance -- one Organization
>>>>>>> selection was transferred to the Chapters, and one to the IETF -- so
>>>>>>> we now have each of the three communities having an equal say (four
>>>>>>> trustees each) in the constitution of the board.  We also have a
>>>>>>> thirteenth trustee now (Funke Baruwa), who was appointed by the board
>>>>>>> itself and whose background lies outside all three of those
>>>>>>> communities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Second, as Luis said and which can't be stressed enough, once any of
>>>>>>> us becomes a trustee we are not representing the community that put
>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>> here: we are representing the Internet Society itself and acting in
>>>>>>> the interest of the Society as a whole.  We have both a legal and
>>>>>>> moral responsibility to do that.  Of course, we each come with our
>>>>>>> respective individual backgrounds and experience, which certainly
>>>>>>> affects our individual views, and that diversity is crucial in
>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>> a broad global perspective.  Sometimes that means that we have
>>>>>>> different views of what is best for the Society.  But it doesn't
>>>>>>> change the basic truth that we are all acting not as representatives
>>>>>>> of the communities we came from, but as trustees of the Internet
>>>>>>> Society.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Third, the board's role is never to manage operational decisions for
>>>>>>> running the Society -- that's the job of the Internet Society
>>>>>>> management.  It is to work with the Society to set strategic
>>>>>>> direction, to oversee the mission of the Society.  A board that would
>>>>>>> micromanage things would be overstepping its role and would be toxic
>>>>>>> to the health of the organization, whose management has to have the
>>>>>>> freedom and flexibility to handle day-to-day operations as it sees
>>>>>>> appropriate, within the strategic plan that we worked with them to
>>>>>>> create.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Barry Leiba
>>>>>>> Internet Society trustee
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>>>>> subscribed
>>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Notice*: This email may contain confidential information, is
>>>>>> subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named
>>>>>> addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use,
>>>>>> disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by
>>>>>> mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>>>> subscribed
>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>>> -
>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Caleb Ogundele*
>>>> Email: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>> -
>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> Joly MacFie  +12185659365
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As a Chapter Leader, you are automatically added to the Internet
>>> Society’s Chapter Leaders Community Group and the Chapter Delegates e-list,
>>> which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal
>>> (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>> The Internet Society has a legitimate interest to communicate with its
>>> chapter leaders, you will therefore remain subscribed for the duration of
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>>> Please note that the archive of this list is publicly accessible and may
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>>>
>>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------
> Joly MacFie  +12185659365
> --------------------------------------
> -
> _______________________________________________
> As a Chapter Leader, you are automatically added to the Internet Society’s
> Chapter Leaders Community Group and the Chapter Delegates e-list, which is
> regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
> https://community.internetsociety.org.
> The Internet Society has a legitimate interest to communicate with its
> chapter leaders, you will therefore remain subscribed for the duration of
> your term and will be unsubscribed automatically when your term ends.
> Please note that the archive of this list is publicly accessible and may
> be viewed by anyone. By submitting information to this list and
> contributing to the communications, you acknowledge that the contents will
> be publicly visible.
> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>
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