[Chapter-delegates] Chapter advice on live streaming
Joly MacFie
joly at punkcast.com
Mon Feb 3 13:56:12 PST 2025
Thanks Chreyl,
The silver lining is of course that the material *IS* available, if not in
proper archive form, and chapters can go ahead and find their stuff on that
channel and upgrade legacy links, embeds etc.appropriately
Joly
On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 4:50 PM Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Jolly, I am very disappointed with how all this is being "managed" I must
> say, Thank YOU for YOUR extraordinary service to us in volunteer/Chapter
> land for so many years in this actually quite demanding area. and **HUGE
> SIGH**
>
>
> <https://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb>
> Cheryl Langdon-Orr
> about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr
> <https://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb>
>
>
> On Tue, 4 Feb 2025 at 08:04, Joly MacFie via Chapter-delegates <
> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for your support!
>>
>> ISOC Zambia does great work.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 3:43 PM levy syanseke <lsyanseke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This is a hard read.
>>> Thanks Joly, for your hard work and commitment to the Internet Society.
>>>
>>> I do hope recognition of your work goes beyond word to probably being
>>> rewarded, especially following the new channel with most of your work and
>>> you havent been consulted or engaged.
>>>
>>> I wish you well. I do remember our first work when the chapter was
>>> launched, your work is indeed great.
>>>
>>> I wish you well once again.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Levy Syanseke
>>>
>>> Media Studies Tutor | Ramah Designs
>>> <https://web.facebook.com/ramahdesigns/> - Founder
>>>
>>> Internet Society Zambia Chapter <https://isoczambia.org> - Founding
>>> president
>>>
>>> Youth IGF Movement <https://youthigf.com/>- Community Coordinator
>>> +260 978 210 494 <+260+978+210+494>
>>> lsyanseke at gmail.com
>>>
>>> <https://ramahdesigns.business.site/>
>>> God Loves You!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 9:11 PM Joly MacFie via Chapter-delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a further update on this issue i.e. the preservation of the
>>>> Livestream.com archive.
>>>>
>>>> As you may recall ISOC Foundation rejected ISOC-NY's small grant
>>>> request for $1200 expenses on the basis "*the total number of requests
>>>> we receive exceed the amount of funding we have available and we must
>>>> select projects most closely aligned to the goals of our Foundation*."
>>>>
>>>> Faced with the prospect of 1000+ ISOC events disappearing into the
>>>> ether, in the last weeks of November I dug into my personal savings, and
>>>> went ahead on my own. It turned out that a) scraping was a little more
>>>> complicated than I had thought, and b) there was mode data than I had
>>>> imagined so that I ended up needing 3 drives. The total expenses were $
>>>> 1670.94
>>>>
>>>> The scraping process took a over two weeks. ISOC's 3 accounts were due
>>>> to expire in the second week of December, and it was a race against time to
>>>> bring in all the data. As it turned out, only Channel 3 was immediately
>>>> deleted. Fortunately we just got it all in time.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile the Internet Archive itself was having issues. It had been
>>>> hacked and access was severely limited. They had their hands full. The
>>>> task remained (and remains) to reshape the raw JSON metadata into something
>>>> that their system can ingest.
>>>>
>>>> But at least everything was safe. The idea was proposed, and informally
>>>> discussed, with Chris Locke, that ISOC Foundation could be approached to
>>>> cover my outlay and the further processing cost.
>>>>
>>>> And that was where it stood, until this week, when to my total
>>>> surprise, it was revealed that ISOC had opened it's own YouTube Channel '*Internet
>>>> Society On-Deman*d <https://www.youtube.com/@InternetSocietyOnDemand>'
>>>> in August, and by some method, either scraping or via Vimeo, itself
>>>> collected and posted 5.1k videos from Livestream! It posits itself : " Watch
>>>> past Internet Society streamed and recorded events and videos all in one
>>>> place. " Written by someone with a sense of humour, obviously!
>>>>
>>>> Every single one of these videos is my work.Was I consulted/informed at
>>>> any point? No. Were even other ISOC people who might have told me informed?
>>>> Were Chapter Leaders informed? No. Were Chapter Trustees informed? No. No.
>>>>
>>>> Was someone else paid a good deal of money to do this? Probably.
>>>>
>>>> How I discovered this at all is because when, earlier in the week, the
>>>> Cybersecurity SIG had requested funding to have me livestream a forthcoming
>>>> event, they were told, we have our own channel now, why do you need Joly at
>>>> all?l
>>>>
>>>> If a SIG or chapter wants to record their event via Zoom, they can send
>>>>> it to us and we will post it on our Internet Society on Demand YouTube
>>>>> page, https://www.youtube.com/@InternetSocietyOnDemand
>>>>> If you require live streaming (not sure how this differs
>>>>> from leveraging your current Zoom account and inviting members to join.),
>>>>> please provide a document with rationale, benefit, and associated costs for
>>>>> Joly's services and we can apply through the external contractor process.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, as Chapters/SIGS I work with know there are several things ISOC
>>>> LIVE does beyond just reposting Zooms, e.g. co-promoting their events,
>>>> recompositing the streams live, simulcasting (including to regional FB
>>>> pages before they removed my access) , editing the recordings, making and
>>>> correcting transcripts etc etc. It shou;d be easy enough to ,ale a quick
>>>> Statement of Work for that stuff. We'll see the response.
>>>>
>>>> But SIGs are a special case,.Unlike Chapters that are chartered
>>>> entities, SIGS are internal projects and funded internally. I suspect that
>>>> any Chapter looking for similar funding will be referred to the BTN Small
>>>> Grants process (wherever it reappears) with its 8 week run up etc. As I
>>>> have said before, this is basically a non-starter, since in all my days
>>>> I've rarely if ever had more than a few days notice of a Chapter
>>>> livestream. Nevertheless, a draft Statement of Work will be created that
>>>> Chapters can use for this purpose.
>>>>
>>>> In the bigger picture the way this has been done is just another
>>>> example of ISOC Staff imposing top-down solutions, but, in this case,
>>>> underhandedly, in the face of vociferous advocacy from the community.
>>>>
>>>> My feeling on this is that Chapters should act collectively to take
>>>> control of their media output, say a Chapters Media Council or similar,
>>>> that, given ISOC's failings in this area, both in vision and practice,
>>>> could take over ISOC LIVE, and contract me, or someone else, to keep up the
>>>> work.
>>>>
>>>> This I suspect would also satisfy ISOC Comms, who plainly want to
>>>> maintain a clear distinction between Chapters output and that of ISOC
>>>> itself, in order to focus their messaging. They have never promoted the
>>>> livestreaming (with the notable exception of the PIR fiasco).
>>>>
>>>> Joly
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 1:50 PM Caleb Ogundele via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> *Speaking in my personal capacity.*
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks, Charles you for sharing your thoughts, which resonate
>>>>> with some of my own reflections. I have been following this conversation
>>>>> closely, and while I may have a different perspective on certain comments
>>>>> made by a few other persons in this thread, I want to emphasize that ISOC
>>>>> is community-driven and community-powered. Engaging in discussions like
>>>>> this makes us better, as we can all learn from one another and work towards
>>>>> earning each other’s trust.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the record, I support open engagement that enhances our Chapter,
>>>>> even though my fiduciary duty at this point is to ISOC.org, which limits
>>>>> the extent of my engagement as a member of ISOC's Board of Trustees.
>>>>> However, I will always advocate that community comes first, and ISOC is no
>>>>> exception in the multistakeholder approach we have all championed. As an
>>>>> African proverb states, “It takes a whole village to raise a child.” For
>>>>> ISOC to become what we all envision in that child I see in that proverb, it
>>>>> must always be driven by engagement within our community.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to express my gratitude to all the community members who have
>>>>> relentlessly engaged on this topic. I believe that the concerned
>>>>> individuals in this thread are listening, and listening is a key component
>>>>> of accountability. I am optimistic that taking the right steps to earn the
>>>>> community's trust and needs is important and I hope this issue will soon be
>>>>> resolved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> *Caleb Ogundele*
>>>>> Chapter Elected,
>>>>> ISOC Board of Trustees Member
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 3:07 AM Charles Mok (gmail) via
>>>>> Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Eduardo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eduardo you are right that chapters and our members form an important
>>>>>> part of who ISOC is. In "About Us" on our website, you see we prominently
>>>>>> mentioned "128,265" Members, "131" chapters and SIGs, and 84 OMs. This is
>>>>>> by no means to compare which is/are more important, but it is also fair to
>>>>>> say that without chapters, we will become more like a trade or industry
>>>>>> consortium, which is clearly not what ISOC wants to be seen as.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I also want to go back to the points that Barry talked about.
>>>>>> (Following Barry's lead, I also say here for the record that I am a trustee
>>>>>> elected by chapters.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point that Barry (and Luis) reiterated that "once any of us
>>>>>> becomes a trustee we are not representing the community that put us here:
>>>>>> we are representing the Internet Society itself and acting in the
>>>>>> interest of the Society as a whole" is true. But, to me, this is more about
>>>>>> how the communities (including chapters, their leaders and members) should
>>>>>> perceive the trustees, more than binding what they trustees should "care
>>>>>> about." It is true that it is common that chapters may have the "wrong
>>>>>> perception" that their elected trustees "represent" them, or possibly also
>>>>>> the same perception exists for some in the OM or IETF communities too. But
>>>>>> that has more to do with the constituents' perception and hence
>>>>>> expectation, more than what it should limit what the trustees can or should
>>>>>> do. In fact, it shouldn't. As a trustee, I believe we can still advocate
>>>>>> for chapters, oir OMs, or IETF, or anyone else. The fortunate part of it is
>>>>>> that there shouldn't be a "zero sum" scenario among ISOC constituents and
>>>>>> the Internet communities as a whole. After all, in virtually all
>>>>>> situations, I strongly believe what is good for the chapters as a whole
>>>>>> should be good for the other communities, and vice versa. Even what's good
>>>>>> for the OM community "as a whole" (not individual company members) should
>>>>>> be good for chapters and the whole Internet community too. So why not? Even
>>>>>> when we talk about this case about live streaming, those in the OM or IETF
>>>>>> communities can listen to and benefit from it, and I am sure some do too,
>>>>>> right? So, I choose to advocate for any or all of them as appropriate for
>>>>>> the matter, rather than avoiding any one (or all) of them, including the
>>>>>> constituent that just happens to have elected me to the board.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And about the point that the board should not interfere with
>>>>>> management actions, I agree too that is proper. The board should not
>>>>>> micromanage the executive management. But that does not mean that the board
>>>>>> must collectively agree with or defend any (past or present) management
>>>>>> decision either. Otherwise, it may be the management micromanaging the
>>>>>> minds of individual board trustees :) That would not be a nice thing :) Of
>>>>>> course, due to confidentiality, trustees (and management too) should not
>>>>>> discuss the details of the proceedings in the board. But, that should not
>>>>>> be necessarily construed as that the board collectively agrees completely
>>>>>> and without any reservation with any or management decisions, the kind of
>>>>>> thing that we just said the board cannot interfere with in the first place.
>>>>>> So, there may be some management decisions that some trustees may choose
>>>>>> not to defend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As Barry well said, "management has to have the freedom and
>>>>>> flexibility to handle day-to-day operations as it sees appropriate, within
>>>>>> the strategic plan that we worked with them to
>>>>>> create." It should and can also have the freedom and flexibility to
>>>>>> change course and make revisions to policies or executive decisions based
>>>>>> on new information, feedback received from the communities, and plainly
>>>>>> learning to fix something that did not work very well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There have been a lot of useful discussions here. It is unfortunate
>>>>>> that the past decision has got us to this point. For that, as they say, it
>>>>>> is what it is, or, it was what it was. Looking to the future, I think we
>>>>>> can move on, and it seems pretty clear that there are ways (including some
>>>>>> discussed in the thread here) that can lead to a better outcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 2:45 PM Eduardo Diaz via Chapter-delegates <
>>>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Barry,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I appreciate your insights regarding the responsibilities of the
>>>>>>> Board of Trustees for the entire Internet Society. However, it is crucial
>>>>>>> to recognize that most of the Internet Society's composition consists of
>>>>>>> its chapters. The ISOC chapters serve as the organization's foundation;
>>>>>>> without them, ISOC would face considerable challenges in effectively
>>>>>>> communicating its message. With approximately 128,000 members, the chapters
>>>>>>> are essential in mobilizing and engaging the broader community. When
>>>>>>> individuals join a chapter, they become ISOC global members before
>>>>>>> selecting their preferred chapter, emphasizing the chapters' importance in
>>>>>>> representing the entire ISOC community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Chapter Advisory Council (ChAC) was established in the ISOC
>>>>>>> bylaws to ensure a unified voice for all chapters, allowing them to present
>>>>>>> issues pertinent to their members. Consequently, when the Board receives
>>>>>>> formal advice from the ChAC, it should be regarded as a collective
>>>>>>> perspective from its chapters. Given that the Board does not engage in
>>>>>>> operational matters, it would have been prudent to thoroughly review the
>>>>>>> ISOC strategic documents to identify areas where the functionality
>>>>>>> explicitly requested by the chapters could be integrated into the strategy
>>>>>>> and then request the ISOC CEO to implement it. I believe this consideration
>>>>>>> needed to be adequately addressed by all the trustees, particularly given
>>>>>>> the informal way it was discussed. The Board's request to present this
>>>>>>> issue to the staff has been interpreted as a lack of concern for the
>>>>>>> chapters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I would like to ask whether the trustees are willing to consider
>>>>>>> a bylaw change that would allow the ChAC to send formal advice to the ISOC
>>>>>>> CEO regarding matters deemed operational. Absent such a change, staff may
>>>>>>> overlook valuable advice, resulting in a lack of incentive for them to
>>>>>>> respond or take official action, and the chapters will have no other avenue
>>>>>>> to voice these concerns.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -ed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just an ISOC member
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 10:51 AM Barry Leiba via Chapter-delegates <
>>>>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm responding to something in Luis's note, but it's not really a
>>>>>>>> response to Luis -- it's a clarification of what the roles are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > Our BOT elected members (and of course, IETF and OMAC ones if
>>>>>>>> isolated) are a minority in the Board
>>>>>>>> > and they are promptly remembered that they are not representing a
>>>>>>>> sector but the Internet Society as a
>>>>>>>> > whole, as written in the legal framework.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the record: I'm a trustee who was elected by the Organization
>>>>>>>> Members.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First, on the "minority" point, I want to highlight that the
>>>>>>>> Organization Members used to select half the board, six members.
>>>>>>>> Three each were selected by the Chapters and by the Standards
>>>>>>>> Community (the IETF, trustees appointed by the IAB). This change
>>>>>>>> around ten years ago to the current balance -- one Organization
>>>>>>>> selection was transferred to the Chapters, and one to the IETF -- so
>>>>>>>> we now have each of the three communities having an equal say (four
>>>>>>>> trustees each) in the constitution of the board. We also have a
>>>>>>>> thirteenth trustee now (Funke Baruwa), who was appointed by the
>>>>>>>> board
>>>>>>>> itself and whose background lies outside all three of those
>>>>>>>> communities.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Second, as Luis said and which can't be stressed enough, once any of
>>>>>>>> us becomes a trustee we are not representing the community that put
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> here: we are representing the Internet Society itself and acting in
>>>>>>>> the interest of the Society as a whole. We have both a legal and
>>>>>>>> moral responsibility to do that. Of course, we each come with our
>>>>>>>> respective individual backgrounds and experience, which certainly
>>>>>>>> affects our individual views, and that diversity is crucial in
>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>> a broad global perspective. Sometimes that means that we have
>>>>>>>> different views of what is best for the Society. But it doesn't
>>>>>>>> change the basic truth that we are all acting not as representatives
>>>>>>>> of the communities we came from, but as trustees of the Internet
>>>>>>>> Society.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Third, the board's role is never to manage operational decisions for
>>>>>>>> running the Society -- that's the job of the Internet Society
>>>>>>>> management. It is to work with the Society to set strategic
>>>>>>>> direction, to oversee the mission of the Society. A board that
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> micromanage things would be overstepping its role and would be toxic
>>>>>>>> to the health of the organization, whose management has to have the
>>>>>>>> freedom and flexibility to handle day-to-day operations as it sees
>>>>>>>> appropriate, within the strategic plan that we worked with them to
>>>>>>>> create.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Barry Leiba
>>>>>>>> Internet Society trustee
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>>>>>> subscribed
>>>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *Notice*: This email may contain confidential information, is
>>>>>>> subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named
>>>>>>> addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use,
>>>>>>> disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by
>>>>>>> mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>>>>> subscribed
>>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>>>> subscribed
>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Caleb Ogundele*
>>>>> Email: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>>> -
>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --------------------------------------
>>>> Joly MacFie +12185659365
>>>> --------------------------------------
>>>> -
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As a Chapter Leader, you are automatically added to the Internet
>>>> Society’s Chapter Leaders Community Group and the Chapter Delegates e-list,
>>>> which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal
>>>> (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>> The Internet Society has a legitimate interest to communicate with its
>>>> chapter leaders, you will therefore remain subscribed for the duration of
>>>> your term and will be unsubscribed automatically when your term ends.
>>>> Please note that the archive of this list is publicly accessible and
>>>> may be viewed by anyone. By submitting information to this list and
>>>> contributing to the communications, you acknowledge that the contents will
>>>> be publicly visible.
>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------
>> Joly MacFie +12185659365
>> --------------------------------------
>> -
>> _______________________________________________
>> As a Chapter Leader, you are automatically added to the Internet
>> Society’s Chapter Leaders Community Group and the Chapter Delegates e-list,
>> which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal
>> (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>> The Internet Society has a legitimate interest to communicate with its
>> chapter leaders, you will therefore remain subscribed for the duration of
>> your term and will be unsubscribed automatically when your term ends.
>> Please note that the archive of this list is publicly accessible and may
>> be viewed by anyone. By submitting information to this list and
>> contributing to the communications, you acknowledge that the contents will
>> be publicly visible.
>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>
>
--
--------------------------------------
Joly MacFie +12185659365
--------------------------------------
-
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://elists.isoc.org/pipermail/chapter-delegates/attachments/20250203/64255ede/attachment-0001.htm>
More information about the Chapter-delegates
mailing list