[Chapter-delegates] Chapter advice on live streaming

Mon Feb 3 13:03:22 PST 2025

Thank you for your support!

ISOC Zambia does great work.

On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 3:43 PM levy syanseke <lsyanseke at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a hard read.
> Thanks Joly, for your hard work and commitment to the Internet Society.
>
> I do hope recognition of your work goes beyond word to probably being
> rewarded, especially following the new channel with most of your work and
> you havent been consulted or engaged.
>
> I wish you well. I do remember our first work when the chapter was
> launched, your work is indeed great.
>
> I wish you well once again.
>
> Regards
>
> Levy Syanseke
>
> Media Studies Tutor | Ramah Designs
> <https://web.facebook.com/ramahdesigns/> - Founder
>
> Internet Society Zambia Chapter <https://isoczambia.org> - Founding
> president
>
> Youth IGF Movement <https://youthigf.com/>- Community Coordinator
> +260 978 210 494 <+260+978+210+494>
> lsyanseke at gmail.com
>
> <https://ramahdesigns.business.site/>
>  God Loves You!
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 9:11 PM Joly MacFie via Chapter-delegates <
> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> I have a further update on this issue i.e. the preservation of the
>> Livestream.com archive.
>>
>> As you may recall ISOC Foundation rejected ISOC-NY's small grant request
>> for $1200 expenses on the basis "*the total number of requests we
>> receive exceed the amount of funding we have available and we must select
>> projects most closely aligned to the goals of our Foundation*."
>>
>> Faced with the prospect of 1000+ ISOC events disappearing into the ether,
>> in the last weeks of November I dug into my personal savings, and went
>> ahead on my own. It turned out that a) scraping was a little more
>> complicated than I had thought, and b) there was mode data than I had
>> imagined  so that I ended up needing 3 drives. The total expenses were $
>> 1670.94
>>
>> The scraping process took a over two weeks. ISOC's 3 accounts were due to
>> expire in the second week of December, and it was a race against time to
>> bring in all the data.  As it turned out, only Channel 3 was immediately
>> deleted. Fortunately we just got it all in time.
>>
>> Meanwhile the Internet Archive itself was having issues. It had been
>> hacked and access was severely limited. They had their hands full.  The
>> task remained (and remains) to reshape the raw JSON metadata into something
>> that their system can ingest.
>>
>> But at least everything was safe. The idea was proposed, and informally
>> discussed, with Chris Locke, that ISOC Foundation could be approached to
>> cover my outlay and the further processing cost.
>>
>> And that was where it stood, until this week, when to my total surprise,
>> it was revealed that ISOC had opened it's own YouTube Channel '*Internet
>> Society On-Deman*d <https://www.youtube.com/@InternetSocietyOnDemand>'
>> in August, and by some method, either scraping or via Vimeo, itself
>> collected and posted 5.1k videos from Livestream! It posits itself : " Watch
>> past Internet Society streamed and recorded events and videos all in one
>> place. " Written by someone with a sense of humour, obviously!
>>
>> Every single one of these videos is my work.Was I consulted/informed at
>> any point? No. Were even other ISOC people who might have told me informed?
>> Were Chapter  Leaders informed? No. Were Chapter Trustees informed? No. No.
>>
>> Was someone else paid a good deal of money to do this? Probably.
>>
>> How I discovered this at all is because when, earlier in the week, the
>> Cybersecurity SIG had requested funding to have me livestream a forthcoming
>> event, they were told, we have our own channel now, why do you need Joly at
>> all?l
>>
>> If a SIG or chapter wants to record their event via Zoom, they can send
>>> it to us and we will post it on our Internet Society on Demand YouTube
>>> page, https://www.youtube.com/@InternetSocietyOnDemand
>>> If you require live streaming  (not sure how this differs
>>> from leveraging your current Zoom account and inviting members to join.),
>>> please provide a document with rationale, benefit, and associated costs for
>>> Joly's services and we can apply through the external contractor process.
>>
>>
>> So, as Chapters/SIGS I work with know there are several things ISOC LIVE
>> does beyond just reposting Zooms, e.g. co-promoting their events,
>> recompositing the streams live, simulcasting (including to regional FB
>> pages before they removed my access) , editing the recordings, making and
>> correcting transcripts etc etc.  It shou;d be easy enough to ,ale a quick
>> Statement of Work for that stuff. We'll see the response.
>>
>> But SIGs are a special case,.Unlike Chapters that are chartered entities,
>> SIGS are internal projects and funded internally. I suspect that any
>> Chapter looking for similar funding will be referred to the BTN Small
>> Grants process (wherever it reappears) with its 8 week run up etc.  As I
>> have said before, this is basically a non-starter, since in all my days
>> I've rarely if ever had more than a few days notice of a Chapter
>> livestream. Nevertheless, a draft Statement of Work will be created that
>> Chapters can use for this purpose.
>>
>> In the bigger picture the way this has been done is just another example
>> of ISOC Staff imposing top-down solutions, but, in this case,
>> underhandedly, in the face of vociferous advocacy from the community.
>>
>> My feeling on this is that Chapters should act collectively to take
>> control of their media output, say a Chapters Media Council or similar,
>> that, given ISOC's failings in this area, both in vision and practice,
>> could take over ISOC LIVE, and contract me, or someone else, to keep up the
>> work.
>>
>> This I suspect would also satisfy ISOC Comms, who plainly want to
>> maintain a clear distinction between Chapters output and that of ISOC
>> itself, in order to focus their messaging. They have never promoted the
>> livestreaming (with the notable exception of the PIR fiasco).
>>
>> Joly
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 1:50 PM Caleb Ogundele via Chapter-delegates <
>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>>> *Speaking in my personal capacity.*
>>>
>>> Many thanks, Charles you for sharing your thoughts, which resonate with
>>> some of my own reflections. I have been following this conversation
>>> closely, and while I may have a different perspective on certain comments
>>> made by a few other persons  in this thread, I want to emphasize that ISOC
>>> is community-driven and community-powered. Engaging in discussions like
>>> this makes us better, as we can all learn from one another and work towards
>>> earning each other’s trust.
>>>
>>> For the record, I support open engagement that enhances our Chapter,
>>> even though my fiduciary duty at this point is to ISOC.org, which limits
>>> the extent of my engagement as a member of ISOC's Board of Trustees.
>>> However, I will always advocate that community comes first, and ISOC is no
>>> exception in the multistakeholder approach we have all championed. As an
>>> African proverb states, “It takes a whole village to raise a child.” For
>>> ISOC to become what we all envision in that child I see in that proverb, it
>>> must always be driven by engagement within our community.
>>>
>>> I want to express my gratitude to all the community members who have
>>> relentlessly engaged on this topic. I believe that the concerned
>>> individuals in this thread are listening, and listening is a key component
>>> of accountability. I am optimistic that taking the right steps to earn the
>>> community's trust and needs is important and I hope this issue will soon be
>>> resolved.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> *Caleb Ogundele*
>>> Chapter Elected,
>>> ISOC Board of Trustees Member
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 3:07 AM Charles Mok (gmail) via
>>> Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Eduardo.
>>>>
>>>> Eduardo you are right that chapters and our members form an important
>>>> part of who ISOC is. In "About Us" on our website, you see we prominently
>>>> mentioned "128,265" Members, "131" chapters and SIGs, and 84 OMs. This is
>>>> by no means to compare which is/are more important, but it is also fair to
>>>> say that without chapters, we will become more like a trade or industry
>>>> consortium, which is clearly not what ISOC wants to be seen as.
>>>>
>>>> But I also want to go back to the points that Barry talked about.
>>>> (Following Barry's lead, I also say here for the record that I am a trustee
>>>> elected by chapters.)
>>>>
>>>> The point that Barry (and Luis) reiterated that "once any of us becomes
>>>> a trustee we are not representing the community that put us here: we
>>>> are representing the Internet Society itself and acting in the
>>>> interest of the Society as a whole" is true. But, to me, this is more about
>>>> how the communities (including chapters, their leaders and members) should
>>>> perceive the trustees, more than binding what they trustees should "care
>>>> about." It is true that it is common that chapters may have the "wrong
>>>> perception" that their elected trustees "represent" them, or possibly also
>>>> the same perception exists for some in the OM or IETF communities too. But
>>>> that has more to do with the constituents' perception and hence
>>>> expectation, more than what it should limit what the trustees can or should
>>>> do. In fact, it shouldn't. As a trustee, I believe we can still advocate
>>>> for chapters, oir OMs, or IETF, or anyone else. The fortunate part of it is
>>>> that there shouldn't be a "zero sum" scenario among ISOC constituents and
>>>> the Internet communities as a whole. After all, in virtually all
>>>> situations, I strongly believe what is good for the chapters as a whole
>>>> should be good for the other communities, and vice versa. Even what's good
>>>> for the OM community "as a whole" (not individual company members) should
>>>> be good for chapters and the whole Internet community too. So why not? Even
>>>> when we talk about this case about live streaming, those in the OM or IETF
>>>> communities can listen to and benefit from it, and I am sure some do too,
>>>> right? So, I choose to advocate for any or all of them as appropriate for
>>>> the matter, rather than avoiding any one (or all) of them, including the
>>>> constituent that just happens to have elected me to the board.
>>>>
>>>> And about the point that the board should not interfere with management
>>>> actions, I agree too that is proper. The board should not micromanage the
>>>> executive management. But that does not mean that the board must
>>>> collectively agree with or defend any (past or present) management decision
>>>> either. Otherwise, it may be the management micromanaging the minds of
>>>> individual board trustees :) That would not be a nice thing :)  Of course,
>>>> due to confidentiality, trustees (and management too) should not discuss
>>>> the details of the proceedings in the board. But, that should not be
>>>> necessarily construed as that the board collectively agrees completely and
>>>> without any reservation with any or management decisions, the kind of thing
>>>> that we just said the board cannot interfere with in the first place. So,
>>>> there may be some management decisions that some trustees may choose not to
>>>> defend.
>>>>
>>>> As Barry well said, "management has to have the freedom and flexibility
>>>> to handle day-to-day operations as it sees appropriate, within the
>>>> strategic plan that we worked with them to
>>>> create." It should and can also have the freedom and flexibility to
>>>> change course and make revisions to policies or executive decisions based
>>>> on new information, feedback received from the communities, and plainly
>>>> learning to fix something that did not work very well.
>>>>
>>>> There have been a lot of useful discussions here. It is unfortunate
>>>> that the past decision has got us to this point. For that, as they say, it
>>>> is what it is, or, it was what it was. Looking to the future, I think we
>>>> can move on, and it seems pretty clear that there are ways (including some
>>>> discussed in the thread here) that can lead to a better outcome.
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 2:45 PM Eduardo Diaz via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Barry,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate your insights regarding the responsibilities of the Board
>>>>> of Trustees for the entire Internet Society. However, it is crucial to
>>>>> recognize that most of the Internet Society's composition consists of its
>>>>> chapters. The ISOC chapters serve as the organization's foundation; without
>>>>> them, ISOC would face considerable challenges in effectively communicating
>>>>> its message. With approximately 128,000 members, the chapters are essential
>>>>> in mobilizing and engaging the broader community. When individuals join a
>>>>> chapter, they become ISOC global members before selecting their preferred
>>>>> chapter, emphasizing the chapters' importance in representing the entire
>>>>> ISOC community.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Chapter Advisory Council (ChAC) was established in the ISOC bylaws
>>>>> to ensure a unified voice for all chapters, allowing them to present issues
>>>>> pertinent to their members. Consequently, when the Board receives formal
>>>>> advice from the ChAC, it should be regarded as a collective perspective
>>>>> from its chapters. Given that the Board does not engage in operational
>>>>> matters, it would have been prudent to thoroughly review the ISOC strategic
>>>>> documents to identify areas where the functionality explicitly requested by
>>>>> the chapters could be integrated into the strategy and then request the
>>>>> ISOC CEO to implement it. I believe this consideration needed to be
>>>>> adequately addressed by all the trustees, particularly given the informal
>>>>> way it was discussed. The Board's request to present this issue to the
>>>>> staff has been interpreted as a lack of concern for the chapters.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I would like to ask whether the trustees are willing to consider a
>>>>> bylaw change that would allow the ChAC to send formal advice to the ISOC
>>>>> CEO regarding matters deemed operational. Absent such a change, staff may
>>>>> overlook valuable advice, resulting in a lack of incentive for them to
>>>>> respond or take official action, and the chapters will have no other avenue
>>>>> to voice these concerns.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -ed
>>>>>
>>>>> Just an ISOC member
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 10:51 AM Barry Leiba via Chapter-delegates <
>>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm responding to something in Luis's note, but it's not really a
>>>>>> response to Luis -- it's a clarification of what the roles are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >  Our BOT elected members (and of course, IETF and OMAC ones if
>>>>>> isolated) are a minority in the Board
>>>>>> > and they are promptly remembered that they are not representing a
>>>>>> sector but the Internet Society as a
>>>>>> > whole, as written in the legal framework.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the record: I'm a trustee who was elected by the Organization
>>>>>> Members.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First, on the "minority" point, I want to highlight that the
>>>>>> Organization Members used to select half the board, six members.
>>>>>> Three each were selected by the Chapters and by the Standards
>>>>>> Community (the IETF, trustees appointed by the IAB).  This change
>>>>>> around ten years ago to the current balance -- one Organization
>>>>>> selection was transferred to the Chapters, and one to the IETF -- so
>>>>>> we now have each of the three communities having an equal say (four
>>>>>> trustees each) in the constitution of the board.  We also have a
>>>>>> thirteenth trustee now (Funke Baruwa), who was appointed by the board
>>>>>> itself and whose background lies outside all three of those
>>>>>> communities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Second, as Luis said and which can't be stressed enough, once any of
>>>>>> us becomes a trustee we are not representing the community that put us
>>>>>> here: we are representing the Internet Society itself and acting in
>>>>>> the interest of the Society as a whole.  We have both a legal and
>>>>>> moral responsibility to do that.  Of course, we each come with our
>>>>>> respective individual backgrounds and experience, which certainly
>>>>>> affects our individual views, and that diversity is crucial in getting
>>>>>> a broad global perspective.  Sometimes that means that we have
>>>>>> different views of what is best for the Society.  But it doesn't
>>>>>> change the basic truth that we are all acting not as representatives
>>>>>> of the communities we came from, but as trustees of the Internet
>>>>>> Society.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Third, the board's role is never to manage operational decisions for
>>>>>> running the Society -- that's the job of the Internet Society
>>>>>> management.  It is to work with the Society to set strategic
>>>>>> direction, to oversee the mission of the Society.  A board that would
>>>>>> micromanage things would be overstepping its role and would be toxic
>>>>>> to the health of the organization, whose management has to have the
>>>>>> freedom and flexibility to handle day-to-day operations as it sees
>>>>>> appropriate, within the strategic plan that we worked with them to
>>>>>> create.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Barry Leiba
>>>>>> Internet Society trustee
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>>>> subscribed
>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Notice*: This email may contain confidential information, is subject
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>>>>> only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or
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>>>>> please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>>> -
>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>> -
>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Caleb Ogundele*
>>> Email: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>> -
>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------
>> Joly MacFie  +12185659365
>> --------------------------------------
>> -
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>

-- 
--------------------------------------
Joly MacFie  +12185659365
--------------------------------------
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