[Chapter-delegates] Chapter advice on live streaming

[levy syanseke]

This is a hard read.
Thanks Joly, for your hard work and commitment to the Internet Society.

I do hope recognition of your work goes beyond word to probably being
rewarded, especially following the new channel with most of your work and
you havent been consulted or engaged.

I wish you well. I do remember our first work when the chapter was
launched, your work is indeed great.

I wish you well once again.

Regards

Levy Syanseke

Media Studies Tutor | Ramah Designs <https://web.facebook.com/ramahdesigns/> -
Founder

Internet Society Zambia Chapter <https://isoczambia.org> - Founding
president

Youth IGF Movement <https://youthigf.com/>- Community Coordinator
+260 978 210 494 <+260+978+210+494>
lsyanseke at gmail.com

<https://ramahdesigns.business.site/>
 God Loves You!


On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 9:11 PM Joly MacFie via Chapter-delegates <
chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> I have a further update on this issue i.e. the preservation of the
> Livestream.com archive.
>
> As you may recall ISOC Foundation rejected ISOC-NY's small grant request
> for $1200 expenses on the basis "*the total number of requests we receive
> exceed the amount of funding we have available and we must select projects
> most closely aligned to the goals of our Foundation*."
>
> Faced with the prospect of 1000+ ISOC events disappearing into the ether,
> in the last weeks of November I dug into my personal savings, and went
> ahead on my own. It turned out that a) scraping was a little more
> complicated than I had thought, and b) there was mode data than I had
> imagined  so that I ended up needing 3 drives. The total expenses were $
> 1670.94
>
> The scraping process took a over two weeks. ISOC's 3 accounts were due to
> expire in the second week of December, and it was a race against time to
> bring in all the data.  As it turned out, only Channel 3 was immediately
> deleted. Fortunately we just got it all in time.
>
> Meanwhile the Internet Archive itself was having issues. It had been
> hacked and access was severely limited. They had their hands full.  The
> task remained (and remains) to reshape the raw JSON metadata into something
> that their system can ingest.
>
> But at least everything was safe. The idea was proposed, and informally
> discussed, with Chris Locke, that ISOC Foundation could be approached to
> cover my outlay and the further processing cost.
>
> And that was where it stood, until this week, when to my total surprise,
> it was revealed that ISOC had opened it's own YouTube Channel '*Internet
> Society On-Deman*d <https://www.youtube.com/@InternetSocietyOnDemand>' in
> August, and by some method, either scraping or via Vimeo, itself collected
> and posted 5.1k videos from Livestream! It posits itself : " Watch past
> Internet Society streamed and recorded events and videos all in one place.
> " Written by someone with a sense of humour, obviously!
>
> Every single one of these videos is my work.Was I consulted/informed at
> any point? No. Were even other ISOC people who might have told me informed?
> Were Chapter  Leaders informed? No. Were Chapter Trustees informed? No. No.
>
> Was someone else paid a good deal of money to do this? Probably.
>
> How I discovered this at all is because when, earlier in the week, the
> Cybersecurity SIG had requested funding to have me livestream a forthcoming
> event, they were told, we have our own channel now, why do you need Joly at
> all?l
>
> If a SIG or chapter wants to record their event via Zoom, they can send it
>> to us and we will post it on our Internet Society on Demand YouTube page,
>> https://www.youtube.com/@InternetSocietyOnDemand
>> If you require live streaming  (not sure how this differs from leveraging
>> your current Zoom account and inviting members to join.),  please provide a
>> document with rationale, benefit, and associated costs for Joly's services
>> and we can apply through the external contractor process.
>
>
> So, as Chapters/SIGS I work with know there are several things ISOC LIVE
> does beyond just reposting Zooms, e.g. co-promoting their events,
> recompositing the streams live, simulcasting (including to regional FB
> pages before they removed my access) , editing the recordings, making and
> correcting transcripts etc etc.  It shou;d be easy enough to ,ale a quick
> Statement of Work for that stuff. We'll see the response.
>
> But SIGs are a special case,.Unlike Chapters that are chartered entities,
> SIGS are internal projects and funded internally. I suspect that any
> Chapter looking for similar funding will be referred to the BTN Small
> Grants process (wherever it reappears) with its 8 week run up etc.  As I
> have said before, this is basically a non-starter, since in all my days
> I've rarely if ever had more than a few days notice of a Chapter
> livestream. Nevertheless, a draft Statement of Work will be created that
> Chapters can use for this purpose.
>
> In the bigger picture the way this has been done is just another example
> of ISOC Staff imposing top-down solutions, but, in this case,
> underhandedly, in the face of vociferous advocacy from the community.
>
> My feeling on this is that Chapters should act collectively to take
> control of their media output, say a Chapters Media Council or similar,
> that, given ISOC's failings in this area, both in vision and practice,
> could take over ISOC LIVE, and contract me, or someone else, to keep up the
> work.
>
> This I suspect would also satisfy ISOC Comms, who plainly want to maintain
> a clear distinction between Chapters output and that of ISOC itself, in
> order to focus their messaging. They have never promoted the livestreaming
> (with the notable exception of the PIR fiasco).
>
> Joly
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 1:50 PM Caleb Ogundele via Chapter-delegates <
> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> *Speaking in my personal capacity.*
>>
>> Many thanks, Charles you for sharing your thoughts, which resonate with
>> some of my own reflections. I have been following this conversation
>> closely, and while I may have a different perspective on certain comments
>> made by a few other persons  in this thread, I want to emphasize that ISOC
>> is community-driven and community-powered. Engaging in discussions like
>> this makes us better, as we can all learn from one another and work towards
>> earning each other’s trust.
>>
>> For the record, I support open engagement that enhances our Chapter, even
>> though my fiduciary duty at this point is to ISOC.org, which limits the
>> extent of my engagement as a member of ISOC's Board of Trustees. However, I
>> will always advocate that community comes first, and ISOC is no exception
>> in the multistakeholder approach we have all championed. As an African
>> proverb states, “It takes a whole village to raise a child.” For ISOC to
>> become what we all envision in that child I see in that proverb, it must
>> always be driven by engagement within our community.
>>
>> I want to express my gratitude to all the community members who have
>> relentlessly engaged on this topic. I believe that the concerned
>> individuals in this thread are listening, and listening is a key component
>> of accountability. I am optimistic that taking the right steps to earn the
>> community's trust and needs is important and I hope this issue will soon be
>> resolved.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> *Caleb Ogundele*
>> Chapter Elected,
>> ISOC Board of Trustees Member
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2024 at 3:07 AM Charles Mok (gmail) via Chapter-delegates
>> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Eduardo.
>>>
>>> Eduardo you are right that chapters and our members form an important
>>> part of who ISOC is. In "About Us" on our website, you see we prominently
>>> mentioned "128,265" Members, "131" chapters and SIGs, and 84 OMs. This is
>>> by no means to compare which is/are more important, but it is also fair to
>>> say that without chapters, we will become more like a trade or industry
>>> consortium, which is clearly not what ISOC wants to be seen as.
>>>
>>> But I also want to go back to the points that Barry talked about.
>>> (Following Barry's lead, I also say here for the record that I am a trustee
>>> elected by chapters.)
>>>
>>> The point that Barry (and Luis) reiterated that "once any of us becomes
>>> a trustee we are not representing the community that put us here: we
>>> are representing the Internet Society itself and acting in the interest
>>> of the Society as a whole" is true. But, to me, this is more about how the
>>> communities (including chapters, their leaders and members) should perceive
>>> the trustees, more than binding what they trustees should "care about." It
>>> is true that it is common that chapters may have the "wrong perception"
>>> that their elected trustees "represent" them, or possibly also the same
>>> perception exists for some in the OM or IETF communities too. But that has
>>> more to do with the constituents' perception and hence expectation, more
>>> than what it should limit what the trustees can or should do. In fact, it
>>> shouldn't. As a trustee, I believe we can still advocate for chapters, oir
>>> OMs, or IETF, or anyone else. The fortunate part of it is that there
>>> shouldn't be a "zero sum" scenario among ISOC constituents and the Internet
>>> communities as a whole. After all, in virtually all situations, I strongly
>>> believe what is good for the chapters as a whole should be good for the
>>> other communities, and vice versa. Even what's good for the OM community
>>> "as a whole" (not individual company members) should be good for chapters
>>> and the whole Internet community too. So why not? Even when we talk about
>>> this case about live streaming, those in the OM or IETF communities can
>>> listen to and benefit from it, and I am sure some do too, right? So, I
>>> choose to advocate for any or all of them as appropriate for the matter,
>>> rather than avoiding any one (or all) of them, including the constituent
>>> that just happens to have elected me to the board.
>>>
>>> And about the point that the board should not interfere with management
>>> actions, I agree too that is proper. The board should not micromanage the
>>> executive management. But that does not mean that the board must
>>> collectively agree with or defend any (past or present) management decision
>>> either. Otherwise, it may be the management micromanaging the minds of
>>> individual board trustees :) That would not be a nice thing :)  Of course,
>>> due to confidentiality, trustees (and management too) should not discuss
>>> the details of the proceedings in the board. But, that should not be
>>> necessarily construed as that the board collectively agrees completely and
>>> without any reservation with any or management decisions, the kind of thing
>>> that we just said the board cannot interfere with in the first place. So,
>>> there may be some management decisions that some trustees may choose not to
>>> defend.
>>>
>>> As Barry well said, "management has to have the freedom and flexibility
>>> to handle day-to-day operations as it sees appropriate, within the
>>> strategic plan that we worked with them to
>>> create." It should and can also have the freedom and flexibility to
>>> change course and make revisions to policies or executive decisions based
>>> on new information, feedback received from the communities, and plainly
>>> learning to fix something that did not work very well.
>>>
>>> There have been a lot of useful discussions here. It is unfortunate that
>>> the past decision has got us to this point. For that, as they say, it is
>>> what it is, or, it was what it was. Looking to the future, I think we can
>>> move on, and it seems pretty clear that there are ways (including some
>>> discussed in the thread here) that can lead to a better outcome.
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 2:45 PM Eduardo Diaz via Chapter-delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Barry,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate your insights regarding the responsibilities of the Board
>>>> of Trustees for the entire Internet Society. However, it is crucial to
>>>> recognize that most of the Internet Society's composition consists of its
>>>> chapters. The ISOC chapters serve as the organization's foundation; without
>>>> them, ISOC would face considerable challenges in effectively communicating
>>>> its message. With approximately 128,000 members, the chapters are essential
>>>> in mobilizing and engaging the broader community. When individuals join a
>>>> chapter, they become ISOC global members before selecting their preferred
>>>> chapter, emphasizing the chapters' importance in representing the entire
>>>> ISOC community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Chapter Advisory Council (ChAC) was established in the ISOC bylaws
>>>> to ensure a unified voice for all chapters, allowing them to present issues
>>>> pertinent to their members. Consequently, when the Board receives formal
>>>> advice from the ChAC, it should be regarded as a collective perspective
>>>> from its chapters. Given that the Board does not engage in operational
>>>> matters, it would have been prudent to thoroughly review the ISOC strategic
>>>> documents to identify areas where the functionality explicitly requested by
>>>> the chapters could be integrated into the strategy and then request the
>>>> ISOC CEO to implement it. I believe this consideration needed to be
>>>> adequately addressed by all the trustees, particularly given the informal
>>>> way it was discussed. The Board's request to present this issue to the
>>>> staff has been interpreted as a lack of concern for the chapters.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, I would like to ask whether the trustees are willing to consider a
>>>> bylaw change that would allow the ChAC to send formal advice to the ISOC
>>>> CEO regarding matters deemed operational. Absent such a change, staff may
>>>> overlook valuable advice, resulting in a lack of incentive for them to
>>>> respond or take official action, and the chapters will have no other avenue
>>>> to voice these concerns.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -ed
>>>>
>>>> Just an ISOC member
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 10:51 AM Barry Leiba via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm responding to something in Luis's note, but it's not really a
>>>>> response to Luis -- it's a clarification of what the roles are.
>>>>>
>>>>> >  Our BOT elected members (and of course, IETF and OMAC ones if
>>>>> isolated) are a minority in the Board
>>>>> > and they are promptly remembered that they are not representing a
>>>>> sector but the Internet Society as a
>>>>> > whole, as written in the legal framework.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the record: I'm a trustee who was elected by the Organization
>>>>> Members.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, on the "minority" point, I want to highlight that the
>>>>> Organization Members used to select half the board, six members.
>>>>> Three each were selected by the Chapters and by the Standards
>>>>> Community (the IETF, trustees appointed by the IAB).  This change
>>>>> around ten years ago to the current balance -- one Organization
>>>>> selection was transferred to the Chapters, and one to the IETF -- so
>>>>> we now have each of the three communities having an equal say (four
>>>>> trustees each) in the constitution of the board.  We also have a
>>>>> thirteenth trustee now (Funke Baruwa), who was appointed by the board
>>>>> itself and whose background lies outside all three of those
>>>>> communities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Second, as Luis said and which can't be stressed enough, once any of
>>>>> us becomes a trustee we are not representing the community that put us
>>>>> here: we are representing the Internet Society itself and acting in
>>>>> the interest of the Society as a whole.  We have both a legal and
>>>>> moral responsibility to do that.  Of course, we each come with our
>>>>> respective individual backgrounds and experience, which certainly
>>>>> affects our individual views, and that diversity is crucial in getting
>>>>> a broad global perspective.  Sometimes that means that we have
>>>>> different views of what is best for the Society.  But it doesn't
>>>>> change the basic truth that we are all acting not as representatives
>>>>> of the communities we came from, but as trustees of the Internet
>>>>> Society.
>>>>>
>>>>> Third, the board's role is never to manage operational decisions for
>>>>> running the Society -- that's the job of the Internet Society
>>>>> management.  It is to work with the Society to set strategic
>>>>> direction, to oversee the mission of the Society.  A board that would
>>>>> micromanage things would be overstepping its role and would be toxic
>>>>> to the health of the organization, whose management has to have the
>>>>> freedom and flexibility to handle day-to-day operations as it sees
>>>>> appropriate, within the strategic plan that we worked with them to
>>>>> create.
>>>>>
>>>>> Barry Leiba
>>>>> Internet Society trustee
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>>> -
>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> -
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>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>> -
>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Caleb Ogundele*
>> Email: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>> -
>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------
> Joly MacFie  +12185659365
> --------------------------------------
> -
> _______________________________________________
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