[Chapter-delegates] Unfortunately, the Internet Impact Toolkit is unsound

Dave Burstein daveb at dslprime.com
Wed Sep 9 11:10:28 PDT 2020


Vint & Bob's TCP-IP is one of the greatest engineering achievements in
history. It is utterly amazing they designed a system for a modest network
that today is effectively serving billions. If anything, what they did is
underappreciated.
---------------
I've actively opposed the Verizon "New IP" and European "Non-IP" standards,
because TCP-IP has proven how effective it can be in so many different ways.

The European (and other telcos) want to break from TCP-IP to be
"deterministic." They believe that will make the system more efficient and
guarantee QoS.  I believe they are fooling themselves, partly inspired by
what I have learned from Vint. I see it as the telcos wanting to control
and charge, revisiting the longtime Bellhead goal.

To prevent that, I think we need to engage in terms all involved can
understand. Defining that as "Not the Internet we understand" will not
dissuade others.
------------------
The Internet, however we define it, will always need to run over the
physical systems of telcos and cablecos. That's why I've urged ISOC to open
up 3GPP and the other fora where many of the key decisions are made.

*Please hear me on that, even as we disagree on other things. *We need
active involvement, not more policy papers that do not address everyone's
interest.

To a woman with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. To we who know how
to write abstract policy papers, they seem an ideal tool. We need much more.
---------------
India, South Asia, China, and perhaps Africa will soon be the majority of
Internet users. Unless we are able to effectively include and address them,
our efforts will fail.

That ISOC is so U.S. dominated does not mean we are wrong. But I believe we
don't know how to effectively include the rest of the world. That begins
with hearing the people who are not "like-minded," as our policy lead and
past CEO put it.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 1:42 PM vinton cerf <vgcerf at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dave, I think you may have at least one thing wrong.
>
> You can't interconnect a bunch of networks and expect anything to work if
> there isn't something they have in common. Sometimes that's up at the
> application layer - so we used to have email gateways but could not do
> remote login or ftp or the many other things we do over TCP/IP or UDP/IP.
> The common use of IP is key to the Internet's ability to interconnect
> multiple packet-switched networks. Bob Kahn's DOA assumes IP connectivity
> but is not dependent on DNS (although it can use DNS).
>
> vint
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 12:30 PM Dave Burstein via Chapter-delegates <
> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> People
>>
>> Columbia Professor Eli Noam, perhaps the Internet's most respected public
>> voice, pointed out that there was no reason what's valuable about the
>> Internet required a single system. So long as there was robust
>> interconnection, there could be many "Internets" with different internal
>> systems.
>>
>> There is absolutely no reason the future Internet requires "a Common
>> Protocol," "a Single Distributed Routing System," or "Common Global
>> Identifiers"* I think those are good ideas, but can respect those who
>> disagree. *
>>
>> Bob Kahn, a founder of ISOC, supports DOA/DONA, a "digital object
>> architecture." We discuss some of its pros and cons at
>> https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/doc/2016/overview-of-the-digital-object-architecture-doa/
>>
>> In another example, Verizon, backed by Deutsche Telekom, Telefonica, the
>> Koreans, and the Chinese want "deterministic networking" designed to
>> guarantee performance. (Like Vint and Andrew, I strongly oppose that and
>> was one of the few to speak up at the ITU FG2030. It is likely to dominate
>> our networks in 5-10 years, like it or not.)
>>
>> I might prefer a system that did a better job protecting my privacy from
>> government and corporate spying. Others might prefer a system that did a
>> better job detecting and blocking pornography.
>> ----------------
>>
>> To be effective, we need to begin with the facts on the ground. In almost
>> all countries, the Internet is dominated by a handful of companies. I think
>> we can all agree on this, even if we disagree on the right response.
>>
>> 9 of 13 of our Board are from the U.S., as are many of our senior staff.
>> To be effective, we should clearly take positions that benefit Internet
>> users around the world.  We must be very careful not to take positions that
>> protect U.S. giant companies.
>>
>> Our policy lead has said ISOC is a place for "Like-minded individuals,"
>> backed by our current and previous CEO. We've taken that too far, to the
>> point we are preaching to the converted and not representing the interests
>> of most people on the Internet.
>>
>> Andrew, Gonzalo - It's your job to do better.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Editor, AnalysisBranch.com, Wirelessone.news, fastnet.news
>> @analysisbranch telecom news worth a tweet
>> Available for consulting.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS):
>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>
>

-- 
Editor, AnalysisBranch.com, Wirelessone.news, fastnet.news
@analysisbranch telecom news worth a tweet
Available for consulting.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/private/chapter-delegates/attachments/20200909/efd98411/attachment.htm>


More information about the Chapter-delegates mailing list