[Chapter-delegates] Call with Chapters in advance of the ITU Plenipotentiary 2018 (18 Oct, 10:00 and 20:00 UTC)

Tue Oct 16 12:08:56 PDT 2018

Maureen,

indeed, and knowing our friends and those who would undermine us is a
healthy start.

Alejandro Pisanty

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:52 PM Maureen Hernandez <
hernandezgmaureenp at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think almost everyone will agree these spaces are not ideal but the only
> way I know of moving forward in this environments it's to keep being part
> of the meetings and taking advantage of the spaces (even if tiny) we have
> instead of just disabling ourselves... it's key to do as much as we can
> with what we have and keep moving forward.
>
> "To lose the patience is to lose the battle" MG.
>
> Cheers
>
> El mar., 16 oct. 2018 a las 19:08, sivasubramanian muthusamy (<
> 6.internet at gmail.com>) escribió:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 10:02 PM Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Richard,
>>>
>>> one of the ways in which this works to the detriment of Internet
>>> principles is to force the counterpart into a drill-down to ever more
>>> minute detail until the investment of effort in counterarguments has too
>>> little return to be worth the effort. Thanks but no thanks.
>>>
>>> The first type of violation experienced in large ITU conferences is the
>>> schedule. There is an evident sigh when the first meeting after dinner is
>>> called. It goes from then on.
>>>
>>> The other type of egregious violation consists of suddenly superseding
>>> the supposedly tidy, long rules-compliant process of building up text for
>>> resolutions through national and regional preparatory processes to drafting
>>> and negotiating text on the fly.
>>>
>>
>> ...which, by design, leads to a premeditated pro-telecom outcome????
>>
>>
>>> The third thing ISOC representatives attending the Plenipot should be
>>> wary of is of consultants who appear to be friendly to the Internet but are
>>> actually doing hack jobs for operators
>>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>> and governments; and sometimes both, as some operators are owned by
>>> governments or closely allied. This gets to the point of becoming a fifth
>>> column against the long-term evolution of a free, open Internet for all.
>>> Fortunately just watching who they sit with over sessions - in the middle
>>> of enfranchised participants, while ISOC is given one chair in the last
>>> table at the end of the room - is enough to unmask them.
>>>
>>
>> The Internet requires a far more active and balancing presence in these
>> forums.
>>
>>
>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 6:32 AM Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please see below.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks and best,
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Chapter-delegates [mailto:
>>>> chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] *On Behalf Of *Alejandro
>>>> Pisanty
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 15, 2018 22:20
>>>> *To:* Elizabeth Oluoch
>>>> *Cc:* ISOC Chapter Delegates
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Call with Chapters in advance of
>>>> the ITU Plenipotentiary 2018 (18 Oct, 10:00 and 20:00 UTC)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> fully agree and I again commend this approach as taken. Now is the time
>>>> for us in chapters to forcefully make our basic points of view known to the
>>>> national delegations that will be attending, and to make sure they continue
>>>> to listen to us through the Plenipot.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >RH: Agreed. However, as I’ve pointed out before, I think that we
>>>> should devote at least as much energy to influencing trade negotiations, in
>>>> particular because trade negotiations result in binding treaty provisions,
>>>> whereas the ITU PP can at most adopt non-binding resolutions.  Recall that
>>>> the US-Mexico-Canada (USMCA) mandates that the ccTLD will publish WHOIS
>>>> data. I would not be surprised if such proposals appeared in future trade
>>>> negotiations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is a long, gruelling few weeks, full of surprises and jarring
>>>> violations of ground rules disguised in different ways.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >RH: Could you please provide examples of violations of procedural
>>>> rules?  ITU’s procedural rules are very complicated and many people don’t
>>>> actually understand them. So it would be good to have actual examples of
>>>> violations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Secrecy in negotiations should not be allowed to hide what each
>>>> delegation is doing, what principles they are actually championing and
>>>> which they are hiding or openly violating.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >RH: All of the proposals to the ITU-PP are publicly accessible on the
>>>> ITU web site. And all the formal negotiating sessions are open to all
>>>> people registered to attend PP.  Non-state actors (including ISOC) can ask
>>>> to speak (but cannot take part in formal decision-making).  There are
>>>> informal negotiating sessions between states that have differing views, and
>>>> those are limited to the representatives of those states, but in the end
>>>> the concerned states have to present their proposals in sessions that are
>>>> open to all registered participants.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >RH: Contrast that to WTO (and other trade negotiations), where not all
>>>> proposals are made public, and the negotiations are limited to state
>>>> representatives who make it a point not to consult (except perhaps big
>>>> business).  Had anybody seen the text of the USMCA before it was formally
>>>> agreed?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> SNIP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> there is a lot of non-transparent politics for these elections and that
>>>> the negotiations may involve trading off or becoming silent on principles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >RH: The negotiations for elections are indeed kept confidential
>>>> (secret, if you wish). But the voting is secret: nobody knows who voted for
>>>> which candidate. So a state can promise a vote, and fail to deliver it. So
>>>> I seriously doubt that there is any real horse-trading going on. What does
>>>> go on is that many states tell several candidates that they will vote for
>>>> them. In my experience,  in the past, several candidates had been promised
>>>> enough votes to have a majority on the first round, which is obviously
>>>> impossible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> SNIP
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
>>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Maureen Patricia Hernández González
> Systems Engineer. Universidad de Los Andes.
>
>
>

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Facultad de Química UNAM
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
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